Hare Krishna,
Before I became KC, I used to vow to demigods that I will do some austerity or something similar IF my desire(good grades in uni, good job, etc) is fullfilled. I know it sounds bizare but its not just me, I came across so many people who do that(may be its south Indian thing).
I know(Well!! limited understanding) now its conditional love, which is not really ideal and also Krishna knows whats best for us, he will fulfill our desires if they are good for us, all we have to do is - give our best shot and have faith in Krishna that he will take care of the rest.
Does any one like to shed more KC light on this or share their opinions/thoughts or correct me if am wrong?
P.S: Navasi Mataji, pleaseeeee do not hesitate to comment.
Japaholic
Vows & Bargains
Hare Krishna, Dear Japaholic,
It doesn't sound bizarre at all, in fact it doesn't even sound strange or unusual.
Maybe you were making these 'bargains' with demigods, but people also address them to the Supreme God, whether they call him Krishna, or God, or another name.
It's very common for people to attempt to negotiate contracts with Higher Powers this way, and I think it's in fact one of the reasons why demigod worship is so popular.... people are fond of getting what they desire in this material world we are living in.
The problem with this kind of bargaining is people forget that there is still going to be a 'reaction' even if they get what they desire....
You ask for a lot of money, and you may get it, but even if you get it, then what do you do when that money brings you some other kind of misery?
Then, you have to go back to the demigod and negotiate another bargain... it's endless and keeps us here in the material world...
So, that's good that you now understand this, and have decided it's best to pray to Krishna for devotional service...
That's the meaning of all that Maha Mantra chanting you've been doing :) :) :)
"Please engage me in your service"....
Much better than running around trying to work out bargains with demigods, you know the story of Hiranyakasipu right?
Well, he negotiated enough bargains to get him what he thought was immortality.... we all know exactly how well that worked out!
LOL! ; )
Love,
Navasi
Precise explanation
Hare Krishna, Navasi Mataji,
Thanks very much for precise and great explanation.
Japaholic
Haribol Prabhu, one may
Haribol Prabhu, one may submit a humble prayer to the Lord, "Oh Lord, if you desire, and if you see that it is beneficial for my spiritual life, please ~~~~~~~" In that way we are always taking shelter of Krishna. We should increase our prayer, not decrease, for that is one of the 9 processes of devotion. HK
ys
ncd
All processes of devotion
Hare Krishna Prabhu, Navasi Mataji,
Thanks very much. I have been doing it something similar "Oh God, I really would like ......, you know whats best for me & if you think its best for me pleaseeeee fullfill my desire."
But, how & when do you know that you are asking for wrong thing and you should really stop praying for it.
Also, Could you please list all other processes of devotion?
Your servant
Japaholic
Praying for the Right Things Can Make You Feel Better
Over this weekend I was forced to pray about something I really wanted, but I kept on reminding myself that what I want really is not within my control. So, within my prayers, I said what I wish to happen, but I also added that what I want more than that is for Lord Krishna to make happen what HE wishes, and I would make my peace with His will being done. When as it turned out I did not get what I wanted (I lost my beloved dog this morning), I knew I could look at the Lord and myself and know I did the best for my dog, for my material self, and for my sense of devotion. It's almost an empowering feeling to acknowlege who is really in charge. True, you don't always get what you want, but when you can stand up and know your love for the Lord is strong, it makes it easier to get on with the rest of it!
Empowering Feelings
Hare Krishna, Dear Krishnaowned,
I am so sorry about your dog (as you already know :)
I was just reading this and thinking about how 'Krishna works in mysterious ways'....
You just recently changed your name from Dachsowned to Krishnaowned, and now this happens.....
Hmmmmm....
Hard to see this as anything other than Krishna's plan.
I agree with what you've said about it being an empowering feeling to acknowledge who is really in charge.
Often people think that acknowledging a Higher Power is some form of weakness, but really, when we "connect" (no pun intended :) with the Supreme Power, Krishna, that is the ultimate strength.
Who's stronger than Krishna, right? (no one)
So, if we're acknowledging His will for us and our lives, then that's real strength, and we feel that, as you have so nicely shared with us that you did.
Thank you for sharing your story, Krishnaowned, I know it's very personal and it's been hard for you, so it's very nice that you've shared it and your realizations about it with all of us.....
There's so much we can learn in this.
Love,
Navasi
About the Name Change --
I was thinking exactly the same thing! Granted, "Dachsowned" is only a joke, but somewhere along the line, (well part of it is I felt "Dachsowned" was a little bit disrespectful, associating with so many souls more pure and more enlightened than I) I think the lesson I needed to learn was one I knew instinctively, was no matter what I have or don't have, no matter what physical presences will be in my life (and make their hasty exits one day), Krishna always was, and always will be, my true Owner.
Don't miss my post about my chanting kitties, by the way! :)
Praying For The Wrong Thing
Hare Krishna, Dear Japaholic,
This is a very good question you are asking here, about how do we know if we are asking for the wrong thing and we should really stop praying for it.
That's really the whole reason we try not to pray for material arrangements of any sort, because of exactly that:
We
Don't
Know
We don't know what is best for us, only Krishna does, so if we are praying for something other than 'please engage me in your service' we're asking for something material, and it really may not be best for us even if it seems like it would.
We never know what is best for us, especially when you look at the entire course of our lives.....
Who can even begin to say how things will turn out?
That's the point, we really can't.
One year, or decade, we think that a certain thing is what we really need and want for our spiritual life, and another decade goes by and we may then find we are praying to have the very thing we once asked for removed from our lives.....
That's why it's important to try not to engage in these kinds of prayers.... because we just don't know.
I will share something personal with you here, from my own experience.... I have had this exact thing happen to me.
I once thought a certain thing was Essential For My Spiritual Life... I mean, Essential.... I thought I would not be able to continue on with the process of devotional service without it.
I prayed to Krishna to grant me this thing, and He did. (He does give us what we ask for, so be careful what you ask for).
At the time, it seemed like it was very good, and it helped me.... However, later on, I was then praying to Krishna to please remove this very thing from my life because it had become a huge obstacle in my progress.
So, similar to praying to Demigods, like I was telling you earlier, this kind of 'Negotiating' with God is a dangerous business.
It's much better if you don't do it, and just accept what Krishna sends you. (not to say that is easy, as I have already told you I did this myself one time) (and I never did it again, having learned a very painful lesson about praying that way for things).
After all, Krishna already knows what we are desiring and if He chooses to give it to us, He will, so we really don't need to be praying for it, He will send it, if He thinks it's something we would benefit from having. :)
Hare Krishna,
Love,
Navasi
Stop praying for material things
Hare Krishna, Navasi Mataji,
I dont know what to say. I could say 'Thanks' but its not good enough, I should really find another word/term to express I am gratefull to you for your explanation and sharing your personal experience.
I agree, we can never predict how things will turn out.
Also I just remembered, if we start praying for material things, will we ever stop praying???? Atleast I wont if get in to the habbit.
My personal experience before i became KC, when i dint have 'XYZ' I prayed for one and I got it eventually. Guess what, after some time I started praying for better 'XYZ'.
My current prayer is along the lines 'I really need this ..... for my spiritual progress and I can associate with devotees, spend more time in temple, etc '. As you said, Krishna already knows what we are desiring, we will get it if its good for us, so I really have to stop praying.
Your servant
Japaholic
XYZ :)
Hare Krishna, Dear Japaholic,
I love what you've said here, that you would pray for the 'XYZ', and then you would get it.... but then you would find that you started praying for a better 'XYZ'..... yes, that's the way it goes...
Or else, we will start praying for an 'XYZQ' etc...
It this way we are trying to make God into our 'order supplier'.
Prabhupad talks a lot about this.... He says:
'Krishna is not our order supplier'.
So, you have the right understanding about this.
It's not that you have to stop praying though, praying is something we do constantly and it's very important, just prayer the right kind of prayer......
For example, you could adjust your prayer, and instead of saying "I need this for my spiritual progress, so I can associate with devotees, spend more time in the temple, etc.."
Adjust it to be: " Please allow me to make spiritual progress".... because, as you understand, Krishna knows what you need in order to make spiritual progress, you don't....
So, you can pray that way: "Dear Lord Krishna, please allow me to make spiritual progress. I think I need 'XYZ' to do it, but I understand that I don't know what I need. Therefore I am putting this in Your Hands, and asking You to arrange what I need to make spiritual progress. I am only asking that You allow me to make spiritual progress".
These kinds of prayers are very nice, and they assist your conscious minds acknowledgment that Krishna really does know what's best for you. They increase your conscious awareness that Krishna is in full knowledge of everything about you, because He really is. :) :) :)
(i.e. it helps you be consciousness of Krishna)
These are such nice conversations we're having, Japaholic, I appreciate having them with you. :)
Love,
Navasi Devi Dasi :)
Doing our best
Hare Krishna, Navasi Mataji,
Thanks very much for correcting me.
I love the tone of your prayers & I will adjust my prayers.
I really appreciate all your comments, you always direct me to the correct path, right way of doing things.
If you don't mind, another little question
how to deal with desires that requires our effort as well?
eg: If I think I need new job in a city which has temple, where I can associate with devotees, etc for my spiritual progress. Yes! I will pray to Krishna for spiritual progress but at the same I need to apply for jobs, attend interviews, etc. If you been applying for jobs for a long time but not successfull, in such cases how to realize that Krishna doesnt want you apply for new job, stay where you are. Should you stop applying for jobs? Or should you carry on doing your bit(applying for jobs) and keep praying to Krishna?
Your servant
Japaholic
Practical Applicatons :)
Hare Krishna, Dear Japaholic,
Very relevant question here...
Yes, you would continue to apply for jobs, doing your very best to get them and at the same time praying to Krishna only for spiritual advancement.
Sometimes when we endeavor for things, even if we believe these things are beneficial for us spiritually, we may be going about it in the wrong way, or in the wrong direction.
If your desire is to get this new job for the purposes you have stated and you are praying to Krishna for help with your spiritual progress, then you are "clearing the way" for guidance from Supersoul....
Meaning, that Krishna will direct you from within your heart as to what you should do, where you should apply, how to apply, etc...
Or, perhaps you will suddenly feel directed to go in a different direction, apply for a different kind of job that you never thought of before..... all kinds of things can happen, like we talked about "you just never know"...
You may find out that you are needed in some other town, or some other country, I mean, Who Knows????
The thing to remember is that whatever our plans may be, no matter how great they are, Krishna's plans for us are "bigger"...
So, if you just do everything you can, and at the same time you are praying only for spiritual advancement, and asking Krishna for guidance in this regard... i.e. "Krishna, please show me, direct me, what do You want me to do here about this situation"... and you are really paying attention to your heart, Krishna in your heart ..... then you will be guided in the right way.
You have to be ready and willing to accept what He sends though, and that's not always easy. :)
Hare Krishna! :)
Love,
Navasi
Directions from Supersoul
Hare Krishna, Navasi Mataji,
I love your "whatever our plans may be, no matter how great they are, Krishna's plans for us are bigger". Its so true isn't.
We(alteast me) think our plans great, everything is thought through, everything is going to be perfect but truth is Krishna's has bigger plans for us.
Thanks again for directing me to correct path.
Japaholic
yes the 9 Processes of devotional service
here you go
Srimad Bhagavatam 7.5.23-24
sri-prahrada uvaca
sravanam kirtanam vishnoh
smaranam pada-sevanam
arcanam vandanam dasyam
sakhyam atma-nivedanam
iti pumsarpita vishnau
bhaktis cen nava-lakshana
kriyeta bhagavaty addha
tan manye 'dhitam uttamam
SYNONYMS
sri-prahradah uvaca -- Prahlada Maharaja said; sravanam -- hearing; kirtanam -- chanting; vishnoh -- of Lord Vishnu (not anyone else); smaranam -- remembering; pada-sevanam -- serving the feet; arcanam -- offering worship (with shodasopacara, the sixteen kinds of paraphernalia); vandanam -- offering prayers; dasyam -- becoming the servant; sakhyam -- becoming the best friend; atma-nivedanam -- surrendering everything, whatever one has; iti -- thus; pumsa arpita -- offered by the devotee; vishnau -- unto Lord Vishnu (not to anyone else); bhaktih -- devotional service; cet -- if; nava-lakshana -- possessing nine different processes; kriyeta -- one should perform; bhagavati -- unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead; addha -- directly or completely; tat -- that; manye -- I consider; adhitam -- learning; uttamam -- topmost.
TRANSLATION
Prahlada Maharaja said: Hearing and chanting about the transcendental holy name, form, qualities, paraphernalia and pastimes of Lord Vishnu, remembering them, serving the lotus feet of the Lord, offering the Lord respectful worship with sixteen types of paraphernalia, offering prayers to the Lord, becoming His servant, considering the Lord one's best friend, and surrendering everything unto Him (in other words, serving Him with the body, mind and words) -- these nine processes are accepted as pure devotional service. One who has dedicated his life to the service of Krishna through these nine methods should be understood to be the most learned person, for he has acquired complete knowledge.
http://vedabase.net/sb/7/5/23/en1
Questions About Prayers
Yes, this is very nice, I remember you were telling us about this in the section called "Questions About Prayers".....
It helped me a lot when you reminded me of this.
Hare Krishna
I've Been Doing It That Way!
Ever since I read Srila Prabhupada's poem he wrote as he arrived in the USA, that's been my inspiration. At one point I refused to pray for anything for myself at all -- this was in my agnotic/Objectivism phase, where I concluded that my life was gift enough from God, and it was up to me to solve my own problems. I've since concluded that at the time, I was, in a way, trying to "play God". So, now when I feel lost, or feel the urgent need for anything, I do pray, but I add the "If it is your will", or "If that is what you'd like for me". It's sort of a way of asking for help without losing my fragile sense of humility.