Hare Krishna,
I got this Through mail few days ago from a Devotee friend,who always do some research on net regarding various religion.
I find this very Intresting and i thougt of sharing this with you people.
India's God Krishna Was the King of Jerusalem!
By Gene D. Matlock
What a strange world in which we live! The Catholic Church has always known that Christianity did not begin with Jesus Christ, but yet it tries to make us think it did.
St. Augustine of Hippo (354-430 AD) wrote: "This, in our day, is the Christian religion, not as having been unknown in former times, but as having recently received that name."
Eusebius of Caesarea (circa 283-371 AD) said: "The religion of Jesus Christ is neither new nor strange."
In Anacalypsis, The 17th century British orientalist and iconoclast, Godfrey Higgins, insisted that Christianity was already firmly in place in both the West and the East, many centuries before Jesus Christ was born. He said, The Crestians or Christians of the West probably descended directly from the Buddhists, rather than from the Brahmins. (Vol. 2, pp 438, 439.)
The existence of the Christians both in Europe and India, (existed) long anterior to the Christian era... (Vol 2, p. 202.) I think the most blind and credulous of devotees must allow that we have the existence of the Cristna of the Brahmins in Thrace, many hundred years before the Christian era-the birth of Jesus Christ. (Book X, p. 593.)
"Melito (a Christian bishop of Sardis) in the year 170, claims the patronage of the emperor, for the now so-called Christian religion, which he calls "our philosophy," on account of its high antiquity, has having been imported from countries lying beyond the limits of the Roman empire, in the region of his ancestor Augustus, who found the importation ominous of good fortune to his government." This is an absolute demonstration that Christianity did not originate in Judea, which was a Roman province, but really was an exotic oriental fable, imported from India, and that Paul was doing as he claimed, viz: preaching a God manifest in the flesh who had been "believed in the world" centuries before his time, and a doctrine which had already been preached "unto every creature under heaven." (Bible Myths and Their Parallels in Other Religions; T. W. Doane, p. 409.)
Religious historians have for hundreds of years struggled to find out how and why the stories about Jesus and Krishna, who were born 2,000 years apart, are so nearly identical.
• Both Christ and Krishna descended from Noah.
• The future births of both messiahs were predicted ahead of time.
• Christ was descended from Abraham
• Krishna was the father of Abraham (Brahma).
• Christ was at once a Koresh, a Hebrew, and a Yehudi.
• Krishna was at once a Kurus, an Abhira, and a Yadava.
• Christ was an incarnation of Yah-Veh.
• Krishna was at once an incarnation of Vishnu and Shiva.
• Christ's first name, Jesus, was Yeshua.
• A title of Krishna, meaning "love; devotion," was Yesu. Even today, many Hindu parents name their sons, Yesu Krishna.
• Both men were born of virgins and in a stable.
• Krishna's mother was named Devaki.
• Jesus mother was called Mary.
• Krishna did not have an earthly father as such, but a protector, named Vasudeva.
• Jesus did not have an earthly father as such, but a mortal protector named Joseph.
• An evil king tried to kill Christ and Krishna when they were both infants.
• To protect the infant Jesus, Joseph and Mary took him to Maturai, Egypt.
• To protect the infant Krishna, his parents, Vasudeva and Devaki, took him to Mathura, India.
• It was predicted that both men would die to atone for the sins of their people.
• As you have probably noticed, they took refuge in places having almost identical names.
• Both men preached to their people.
• Christ was crucified and then resurrected. Krishna was killed by a hunter's arrow and impaled on a tree. Later, he returned to life.
• Christ was crucified in Jerusalem.
• Some Hindu scholars think that Krishna died in Jerusalem, having gone there when his coastal city of Dwarka sank under the sea. Others say he went to Iraq.
• Christ appeared after his "death." Krishna appeared after his "death."
• Both of them have a major holiday dedicated to them on December 25th.
• Christ had a female admirer named Mary Magdalene. Krishna had a female admirer named Marya Maghadalena.
Fanatically sectarian Christians and Hindus alike militantly reject the idea that the stories of these two deities are related. The Christians accuse the Hindus of blurring their identities on purpose. Some even claim that the Devil himself is the culprit.The Hindus reciprocate accordingly. Unfortunately, neither side can prove or disprove anything. In this article, I will attempt to clear up this mystery once and for all.
The Hindu Equivalent of our Old Testament Story of Abraham.
The story begins with our Abraham or Brahma as the Hindus called him. His father was Lord Krishna; his brother was Mahesh a.k.a Maheshvara who would be our Moses (Heb: Moshe).
The Hindu triad consists of the Gods Brahma, the equivalent of our God, and Gods Shiva and Vishnu. Actually Shiva and Vishnu are one and the same deities. Together, they are Brahma (God). Today, in India, there are only two temples dedicated to God Brahma because the Hindus say mankind is not yet ready to worship such a lofty concept.
Hindu Proof That Jesus Is the Son of God!
The Bible tells us that Jesus was both Shiva and Vishnu, for Jesus' biblical names are Isa/Isha (Shiva), Yeshua (Skt. Yishvara, pronounced in Sanskrit as Yeshwara), Kristos, and Yesu, another name of Krishna . Even in India, Lord Krishna was and still is called Yesu Krishna and Kristna. These names prove to us that Jesus was both Shiva and Vishnu, thus making Jesus the begotten son of the Unbegotten-Brahma.
The preceding information shows us that the Hindus are as Christian as the Christians are. Morever, the Hindus can prove that Jesus was the son of God, but we have to accept this as a matter of faith only. Even so, there is no lack of Christian sects wanting the Hindus to "convert" to their way of thinking although we must credit the Hindus with the honor of proving to us that Jesus is the son of God. But the Hindus don't need to convert to the spiritual knowledge they bequeathed to us. They were "converted" thousands of years before our Jesus was born. I say, leave them be.
Since Krishna was not born of man, he was not actually the earthly father of Brahma and Mahesh. Therefore, he himself was the protector (Tara) of Brahma. In Sanskrit, Tara means "savior; protector." It is a term generally used with the gods Rudra, Shiva, Vishnu and Brahma. Even our Old Testament says that the father (protector) of Abraham was Terah (Genesis 11:26.) The Bible tells us that Abraham and Sarah were half-siblings. (Genesis 12:19-20.). The Hindu holy books also tell us that a blood relationship existed between them. The Puranas relate Sarasvati to Brahma and Vishnu. Most frequently, she is associated with Brahma. Her connection with him dates earlier than to any other God. She is portrayed mostly as his wife and occasionally as his daughter. When Vishnu's popularity in India increased, myths relating Saraswati to him appeared. (Ref: Sarasvati and the Gods; www.vishvarupa.com.) Therefore, Brahma or Vishnu would also have been the Tara (Terah) of Sarasvati because of her divine origins.
Brahma (Abraham)
Sarasvati (Sarah)
Abraham or Brahma's home was the land of Haran (Genesis 1:4.) Haran was the coastal principality governed by Krishna. It was even named after him because Hara (Sun God) is another name of Krishna. Brahma/Abraham was 75 years old when he left Haran.
Just as Christ was crucified on a cross and then returned to life, Krishna, also known as Haran, was crucified on a tree and then returned to life. This fact appears to cause some confusion in The Bible. (Read Genesis 11:26-31).
There is also another "Haran" in India-today's state of Haryana. It is the region where Abraham decided to stop making idols and worship only one God. Brahmavarta, a region in Northeastern Haryana, is said to be the place where mankind was first created. (Varta=Dwelling.) Brahmavarta was the site of the Kuruksetra War between the Kurus and Pandavas, in which Lord Krishna distinguished himself. An ancient and holy river, now dried up, the Sarasvati, once flowed through Brahmavarta. The Hakra (the biblical Haggar) was a tributary of the Sarasvati. The relationships of these three geographical entities make sense. If Brahma provided the channel or bed for the Sarasvati river, Brahmavarta could easily have been the symbolical father or brother of Sarasvati. Hakra (Haggar), being a tributary of Sarasvati, depended on Sarasvati . So what were Abraham, Sarah, and Haggar? People, things, or places?
I have stated that the Bible mentions Haran and Haryana. The Hindu holy books also say that Brahma/Abrahan lived in Ur of the Chaldees. Ur was a Sumerian name for "town; city." Chaldee (pronounced Kaldee) derives from the Sanskrit Kaul, a Brahman caste, and Deva (demi-god). The North Indian Kauldevas worshiped idols representing their ancestors. According to the Hindus, Brahma married Sarasvati in Chaldea, the part that is now Afghanistan.
Northern Afghanistan was called Uttara Kuru and was a great center of learning. An Indian woman went there to study and received the title of Vak i.e. Saraisvati (Lady Sarah). It is believed that Brahm, her teacher, was so impressed by her beauty, education, and powerful intellect, that he married her. (The Hindu History, by Ashkoy Kumar Mazumdar; p. 48, in passim.) Lord Krishna, the divine father (Terah/T‚ra) of Brahma/Abraham, was the king of Haran, with the seaport of Dwarka as its capital.
In about 1900 BC, hundreds of thousands of native Indians emptied Northern and Central India and fled to the Middle East after Krishna's Dwarka sank under the water.
Krishna gathered his family together and fled either to the Middle East or to what is now Iraq. Only some gigantic natural disasters, such as earthquakes and floods could have caused such an exodus. It was at this time that the Saraisvati and the Indus changed their proper beds. The Saraisvati dried up.
The drying up of the Saraisvati... led to a major relocation of the population centered around the Sindhu and the Sarasvati valleys... caused a migration westward from India. It is soon after this time that the Indic element begins to appear all over West Asia, Egypt, and Greece. (Indic Ideas in the Graeco-Roman World, by Subhash Kak, taken from IndiaStar online literary magazine; p. 14.)
And Joshua said unto all the people, Your fathers dwelt... in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor, and they served other gods.
Many people don't understand what is meant by Joshua's remark about "the other side of the flood."
And Joshua said unto all the people, Your fathers dwelt... in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor, and they served other gods.
And I took your father Abraham from the other side of the flood, and led him throughout all the land of Canaan... (Joshua 24:2-3.)
Many people don't understand what is meant by Joshua's remark about "the other side of the flood." They think he was referring to the Noachide flood. He was referring to the time when God Krishna's Dwarka and Haran province, in today's Gujarat, sank under water in about 1900 BC. Abraham, Sarah, and their followers escaped southward, to the coastal ports of Kalyan and Sopara (Sophir or Sauvira), in Maharashthra. From there, they sailed northward to the Middle East. Sarah (Sarsvati) embarked from the port of Kalyan. At one time, Kalyan was located closer to the coast, but is now located more than 50 miles inland. Sarasvati is the patron saint of Kalyan. The patron saint of Sophir or Sauvira was Parasu Rama (possibly a name of our biblical Abraham/Brahma).
And I took your father Abraham from the other side of the flood, and led him throughout all the land of Canaan... (Joshua 24:2-3.)
Indian Author Paramesh Choudhury, author of The India We Have Lost, claims that Krishna and his family probably fled to Iraq. But I'm certain that they went to Jerusalem. The word Jerusalem is derived from Sanskrit: Yadu-Ishalayam, meaning "The Holy Rock of the Yadu Tribe." Lord Krishna was a Yadu. The Moslems still revere this huge rock under the Dome of the Rock on Jerusalem Temple Mount.
Until now, I have been wondering why Krishna's name did not appear in Jerusalem after his arrival there. Yet, the name of the king of Jerusalem, Melchizedek, the mentor of Abraham, did. I once thought that Melchizedek was the name of a certain person. I made this mistake by thinking that a prince and a son of a Kassite king, Melik-Sadaksina, was a supernaturally endowed prince, magician and spiritual giant. I thought he had accompanied Krishna, Abraham, and Sarah to the Middle East. Later on, I came to realize that the Sanskrit word Sadhaka applies to anyone who is an adept, a magician, one possessed of supernatural powers gained by worshipping a deity or by uttering magical chants.
I have additionally shown in this article that the New Testament words for Jesus all refer to Lord Krishna and his holy names. The early Christians were convinced that Melchizedek was just a prior incarnation of Jesus Christ, The remains of the Nag Hammadi manuscript entitled Melchizedek seem to confirm this. Melchizedek, king of Jerusalem and mentor of his son Abraham, was none other than ancient India's God Krishna. The early Christians thought that Jesus was a reincarnation of Krishna, for who else had the name Yesu Kristna, Isa, Krishna, etc.?
St. Paul states in the New Testament book of Hebrews:
Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made a high priest forever after the order of Melchisedec. (6:20.) For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him...(7:1); For he was yet in the loins of his father when Melchisedec met him. (7:;10);...what further need was there that another priest should arise after the order of Melchisedec...(7:11); Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchisedec (7:17);.
Melchisedek (Krishna)
In closing this article, I want to mention the dissatisfaction I have always had with fanatical religious sectarians who yell that only they are right and that everybody else is wrong. They often insult, deprecate, mock, and reject those with whom they disagree, hoping to shut the formers' mouths. In many cases, these religious squabbles over suspected "differences" cause widespread bloodshed and misery in the world. I am a Roman Catholic and proud of it. But it grieves me when I hear priests, nuns and laity preach that anyone who isn't a Catholic is hell-bound.
The word "Catholic" itself derives from the Sanskrit Ketu-Loka, meaning "Universal Leader." But how can a religion be "universal" if it is exclusive, locking out nations like India who not only gave Catholics their own bible, but even the Christ they worship? I have shown how nearly parallel our bible and the Hindu holy books concur in almost every way-linguistically, culturally, spiritually, etc. Even the incestuous relationship between Brahma and Sarasvati squares with that of Abraham and Sarah. India more than qualifies to be the real holy land of all mankind. The main differences between Christians and Hindus arise from the fact that the Hindu form of Christianity stayed behind in India, and that the western Christianity we know was exported abroad. Naturally, geographical separation has caused some variations in the two similar teachings, as well as culturally. Additionally, we have to keep in mind that for many hundreds of years, these stories were passed down orally, from father to son. Changes, embellishments, and varying opinions crept through the woodwork.
It is a strange anomaly that our Christian sects want to convert the Hindus to the same religious teachings the latter gave to the world and still practice!
I have amply demonstrated that all of us, no matter what our respective religions and nationalities, are grandchildren of India, Will this knowledge help keep us from tearing ourselves and the world apart?
Addendum:
If, until now, you are still unconvinced that Melchizedek was Lord Krishna, and that Jesus was an incarnation of Krishna (Melchizedek) as Paul himself explained, I have no other recourse but to give you solid proof directly from the mouths of the Hindus themselves! This should put an end to the question. It is a verifiable fact that one of the names of Krishna was Sadhaka. Being a king, Krishna would have been addressed as Malika (King) Sadhaka). If you are still doubtful, go to the web and type in Krishna Sadhaka. You'll instantly get all the proof you'll; ever need. Note: This article is a chapter from Gene's upcoming book, now in preparation: Searching for God -- Now a Valid Science! It will be released in autumn, 2007.
Wow that's a long post.
The author of the book is well known for making statements that he does not support.
His wikipedia page was removed for that very reason.
This information comes from a web site advertising his new book. From what I read no publisher will take on his books, they are all self-published. Also none of his material is peer reviewed. I guess that doesn't mean much.
It is a little interesting what is written here, but it doesn't seem t add anything to what we know about Krishna. The author maintains that Vedic India once ruled the world. That's interesting.
If he provided references for his assertions it would be more interesting.
________________________________________
Visit the Food Channel @ Krishna.com
Thank you for looking in to
Thank you for looking in to this. I have met several people who made the same claims (that mother Yasoda was a virgin and Krishna was born in Barn?) on the internet simply because they read his false claims. If one wants to reveal the truth, it cannot be done through falsity.
The connection
Yes there is a profound connection!
The entire human race has experienced the transition from being in communication with God, to entering into a period of separation from God from the expansion of our individual egos. So the whole of humanity has experienced the falling away of spirituality and therefore it can be seen in all ancient cultural histories.
The Vedic is very old in relation to others, but also impressive due the amount of information it contains, primarily because they were written on Hemp Cloth (great longevity) as compared to other cultures, where in there entire histories are almost unknown because of lacking historical info.
It is said that the Vedic is the oldest, which is probably true. Although the relevance of being the oldest has no bearing on spirituality, maybe provenance of the path of human development, but the human race has been re-seeded or restarted several times during all of this, so its a long and winding road, and we are all on it together, and we have all gone thru it together.
So there are similarities everywhere you look.
Its like expansions and contractions of our ego's over time, trying to figure out how to find fulfillment and satisfaction that is not tainted or fake. We all feel this and go though this - so you always see similarities everywhere throughout time.
I think what makes a lot of historical similarities also, is that when man looses the connection with real spirituality, he feels empty in some way, and some how knows that its some sort of upper force that he is missing, so he makes stuff up to replace it or to fill the void, and its interesting how we all tend to make up very similar things during this time. This is usually when the human ego's are running out of control and there is a big separation from God, and man out of his ego (feeling an inborn necessity for something spiritual) tries to create a God, the way he thinks God should be, this is where the 'man creating god' theory comes from - it should be called the 'mankind that's totally lost, and doesn't have a clue' theory!
Haribol
Belonging to the same ONE
Hare Krshna
Very Insightful
"I think what makes a lot of historical similarities also, is that when man looses the connection with real spirituality, he feels empty in some way, and some how knows that its some sort of upper force that he is missing, so he makes stuff up to replace it or to fill the void, and its interesting how we all tend to make up very similar things during this time. "
Guess WHY ? Because we are all being guided by the VERY SAME PARAMATMA and PARAMESHWAR (Krshna). So He guides us to those similar things. I think that's what you are saying ?
Hare Krshna
Para-whata ?
Just kidding!
Yes, of course we all belong to the same ONE. But we have been given this free will and free choice of handling our self's and choosing our direction, so our personal ego swells and that is separation from the ONE, we separate from the ONE because in a state of swollen personal ego our properties change from the properties of the ONE, this is separation. This is in the spiritual sense, and because there is no physical dimensions in the spiritual, so this separation is not physical, its a separation based on properties - like if my properties change from that of the absolute, then there is separation between myself and the absolute, its my choice to change my properties, so then the separation has been by my choice.
We go thru this as individuals and also, as a humanity have gone thru stages of separation due to everyone in the society having swollen individual ego at the same time, such as what we have today in the world.
We are bound by the five senses and every thing we perceive in this world is thru our own ego, this is inescapable.
There have been all sorts of techniques over the millennia to attempt to escape the inescapable, most are about reduction or destruction of the ego -- this does not work, its like removing a vital organ form the body, and thinking you will get up an continue your activities.
It seems as though we need to use our ego in conjunction with spirituality - this would require a correction of the ego not the elimination of it. How can we correct our ego while being bound by the five senses? we cant with five sense, that has been the age old problem. - So we need another sense!
We are the co-creators and co-cultivators of our inner being, So we need to co-create a sixth sense.
The Paramatman is beyond ignorance and knowledge and different from the five senses - but what does it mean? What is this story of the two birds? and why does it take so long to find out why.
The second bird (the observer) what does he do then, what would be the whole point of this.
I think the two birds need to work together with a spiritual desire to create a sixth sense and correct the ego.
Haribol
Sixth Sense
Hare Krshna
Thank You.
Certainly, the Lord gives us the sixth sense, and tailormakes our spirituality and inner world (Its His gift to us).
Hare Krshna
I read this before and it
I read this before and it across as good imagination but so many so called "fact" are actually fiction. Do you have any reference to support all these claims?
Fiction:
[[[
• Both Christ and Krishna descended from Noah. ?what?
• Both men were born of virgins and in a stable. (Krishna was the 8th son of Devaki but His birth was not by sexual union)
• It was predicted that both men would die to atone for the sins of their people. ?does it say that in Bhagavad Gita, no!
• Christ had a female admirer named Mary Magdalene. Krishna had a female admirer named Marya Maghadalena.
]]]
Hare Krishna
hare Krishna
Here you Go...Let see.
1)Both Christ and Krishna descended from Noah.
Noah as per Dictionary i have found that:The Hebrew patriarch who saved himself and his family and the animals by building an ark in which they survived 40 days and 40 nights of rain; the story of Noah and the flood is told in the Book of Genesis
So it is similar to Lord Krishna picking up Sri Govardhan Hill on tip of his nail!!!
2)Both men were born of virgins and in a stable.
By Stephan Knapp-
Dr. Vedavyas, a research scholar with a doctorate in Sanskrit, discusses some important prophecies from the Bhavishya Purana, which he says dates back to 3000 B.C. He states that one prophecy describes the future appearance of Isha putra, the son (putra) of God (Isha)(Jesus Christ), born of an unmarried woman named Kumari (Mary) Garbha Sambhava.
Krishna as we Know didn't took birth Directly from the womb of Mother Devki.Thats why it is said here as born of Virgins.
3)Well In Bhagvad Gita obviously krishna won't tell Arjuna abt his 'Avatar Samapti' and Divert the topic from Dyana Yoga,jnaya Yoga and Bhakti Yoga.
Although Krishna was Curse by Gandhari that he will Die from hunters arrow(serpent arrow) in Mahabharata.
1. similar does not cut it.
1. similar does not cut it. If you looking at the Bhavisya Purana then you can find the story of Noah there. Exactly the same as it is told in the Bible. But he is still not a descendant of Krishna.
2. Well first of all Krishna was born in a prison house, not a stable. And also although Krishna's birth was not by sexual intercourse, his mother Yasoda was not a virgin as Balaram and Krishna were the 7th and 8th babies.
3. Dieing for atonement of others is not our philosophy. Also it is also not certain that that was even Jesus' philosophy. For the original disciples of Jesus, the Ebonites, did not at all accept the salvation on the cross theory. They believe that one was saved by devotional service rather than salvation due to Jesus' apparent death.
p.s. it is not possible to kill a Vaishnava, see the story of Haridas Thakur and Prahlad Maharaja
not possible to kill
p.s. it is not possible to kill a Vaishnava, see the story of Haridas Thakur and Prahlad Maharaja
Any devotee? Please explain?
Hare Krsna
bhaktincarol
The pure devotee is always
The pure devotee is always under Krishna's protection.
kaunteya pratijānīhi
na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati
attains; kaunteya — O son of Kuntī; pratijānīhi — declare; na — never; me — My; bhaktaḥ — devotee; praṇaśyati — perishes.
O son of Kuntī, declare it boldly that My devotee never perishes
Bhagavad-gītā As It Is 9.31
It is stated, märe krsna räkhe ke, räkhe krsna märe ke: If Krishna protects someone, no one can kill him, and if Krishna wants to kill someone, no one can save him.
Yes, its quite sad,
when that kind of distortions are made , and the delta distortions continue over time. I guess we can look at it as an expected phenomenon to some extent , but as people we have to be extremely careful while presenting resources, to at least minimize the distortions over time.
However, the gist of what the author is saying , does show a connection, that we all know.
Hare Krshna
*Just a note*
My comment above was referring to the original book, and not directed at the person who posted it here.
In fact, it was a simple observation of the general phenomenon of how information gets distorted over linguistic barriers , geographical locations and time if we are not careful with the resources we have and don't have.
However, the good thing about this is the author's efforts to bring forth the historical evidences of the Vedic origins of Hebrews.
Hare Krshna
Fascinating!! And yet...
Hare Krishna!
Your article is fascinating. Many of the events and terminology seem to match and establish a link.
The only thing that strikes me is that while everything about the life and Avatars of Lord Krishna is so well documented in our Vedic Scriptures, how is it that these events are missing from the same.
Also, how is it that Pure Devotees of Lord Krishna and other Saints e.g. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Sant Tukaram, Sant Dnyaneshwar, Srila Prabhupada etc have never once made a mention of these events?
I will be watching this thread very carefully. I would request the other advanced Devotees to give their opinions and share their knowledge regarding this.
Thanks in advance.
Haribol
Your eternal servant,
eternal muser
Thank you
Hare Krishna
PAMHO,
Thank you very much for replying to this forum.
Actualy even i Don't know wether its proper or not.So to find out Devotee's opinions,i posted it here.
Although Most of the points Dosen't contradict.
I never Knew that Abraham is Known as Brahma in Oxford Dictionay.And Sara as Saraswati.
Although We Don't know from what source(Vedic Books,Bible etc etc) the Author has adapted and Prestented a connection,but for me he seems to be suceeded to some extent in Making Connection.
May be Krishna might have went to Jerusalem,as Whole earth was Know as 'Bharata Varsha'.
As It is Said that there are N number of Krishna Lilas which are not given in Krishna books or we Don't know.(Just like Chamatkarika Candrika by a Acharya which Neophyte devotee are not allowed to read,just an example).
This Advent of Krishna to Jerusalem can be one Lilas.
Your Servant,
Aditya Bhargav
Personal Time-Line with Jesus and Krshna
Hare Krshna
Among all the Devtas, devotees, and loving elders who have played a hand in bringing Krshna to me (by Their mercy), Lord Jesus Christ is MOST CERTAINLY one, a prominent one.
Also, i have experienced a striking similarity between -
1. Jesus Christ
2. Sai Baba of Shirdi - who is said to be a Datta-avtar - incarnation of Lord Dattatreya (Brahma - Vishnu - Mahesh Trimurti Datta). He wears a robe like Jesus, head dress like Muslims, and radiates Vedic teachings wherever He goes, performing miracles for His devotees' welfare and with the same compassion as Jesus Christ.
It is supposed that Jesus went to the Northern India (and Himalayas) between ages 12 and 30 to live among the Maharishis, before starting His ministry at about 32.
Hare Krishna
Hare Krishna,
Thank you very much for replying to this thread.
Well actualy Jesus Christ as Son of God was been Predicted in Bavishya Purana and Rig Veda.
But About Sai Baba nothing such was been predicted by any Acharya or saint of other sect neither in Vedas.
During those time of Sai baba(Unknow to October 15, 1918) ,His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Prabhupada(February 6, 1874 – January 1, 1937) was Present and was Spreading the Movement of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.
So why Would Sai Baba will teach(Advaita Vedanta) some thing different from Bhaktisiddhanta Sarawati Prabhupada's Mission!!!?
Our Acharyas are very against Advaita Vedanta isin't it?
Although its not proper to compare Sai Baba with Jesus christ(forgive me if i have offended you) as we Know from our Ancient Text that Jesus Christ was been send to earth by God to spread God Consciousness.And So Jesus Christ is Close representative or close Associate of Krishna.
As You know we ISKCONIST never speak on our own Whims or Belief,we Speak from the Strong base of Vedic Scriptures.
Sai Baba can only be called as Social Worker.Who cured people from diseases.Although Sai baba never said he is God but his sentimental followers claimed that he is God.
And also it is Not Supposed that Jesus Christ went to North India.Its is the Fact and Truth.researched by Stephan Knapp in Vedic Scriptures.(Please see the Next Post)
Refernces:
Rigveda X:90:7 8220;
Tham yajnam barhishi proukshan
Purusham jaathamagratha
Thena deva ayajantha
Sadhya rushayaschaye
The first born and only born son of the God. His name is "Prajapathy" the son of the God comes to this world at the appropriate time. After coming to this world he travels around advising mankind, what is sin and what is not sin; what is to be done and what is not to be done; what is wrong and what is right. To those human beings, which accept his advises and obey his orders, he offers prosperity and peace in this worldly life and salvation at the time of their death. And being the completion of his venture to redeem mankind from sin, he gets sacrificed at the end his specified period on earth. In verse 7 chapter 90 of the 10th book of the Rigveda, the sacrifice of Prajapathy the Son of God, is well explained. ;At the time of sacrifice, the son of God will be tightly tied to a wooden sacrificial post using iron nails by hands and legs, he will bleed to death and on the third day he will regain his life in a resurrection.
According to the ancient Vaisnava view of God, there are many categories of incarnations of the Lord, the "saktyavesa" being just one of them........
The saktyavesa-avataras are of two types: forms of divine absorption (bhagavad-avesa), and divinely empowered forms (saktyavesa). All saktyavesa-avataras are jiva-tattvas, including those who are considered to be incarnations. When a jiva-tattva becomes specifically empowered by the Lord, he is called saktyavesa avatara. Dhanvantari, for example, who was the inaugurator of medical science, was a jiva-tattva saktyavesa incarnation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
The primary saktyavesa-avataras are directly empowered by the Supreme Personality of Godhead and are called an incarnation. Lord Brahma and Lord Siva are considered to be such saktyavesa's, as are Lord Buddha, Kapiladev, Rsabhadev and Nara-Narayana. The secondary saktyavesa-avataras are indirectly empowered by the Supreme Personality of Godhead and are called vibhuti. Jesus Christ and Hazrat Mohammed are included in this group, as are the great Vaisnava Acaryas like Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur, and A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.
"Generally the eternal associates of the Lord in the spiritual sky do not come to the material world. Sometimes they come, however, by the order of the Lord--not to hold any administrative post, but to associate with the Lord in person or to propagate the message of God in human society. Such empowered representatives are called saktyavesa-avataras, or incarnations invested with transcendental power of attorney."
Srimad-Bhagavatam 3:5:21 Srila Prabhupada's Purport.
Hope this meets you in Good health.
Stephan Knapp
I like Stephan Knapp's work, but I think a lot of this stuff hasn't yet completely played out to the point of being an absolute truth, and in the mean time a lot of it is just speculation.
From the Hebrew perspective none of it is relative to the Vedic culture. What we tend to forget, is that the Lord has restarted the human race several times due to corruption that inundated the dwellers of the earth so deeply that the earth ether needed to be destroyed or or re-started without destruction.
The Hebrew lineage is such a re-start! If you look at the biblical time line, it does not conform to the time line of human history or Vedic history - according the the biblical time line during the time of the garden of Eden wherein was the first man, there was a whole other society well underway existing on the earth that had already existed for thousands of years! How can this be?
Scholars and historians chock it up too 'a wrong time line' - NO , archeology shows that there is a much older culture than the Hebrew culture and even older than the garden of Eden.
So what is this? The biblical lineage is an isolated re-start of a new culture for the sole purpose of fulfilling a lineage (bloodline) that brought about the Christ, this is all this was about, and it has nothing to do with any other culture.
Making all these comparisons just gets totally out of hand.
We have to remember that comparisons in Kali are subject to easy corruption. Like Sai Baba who is really a Vedic scientist like Maharishi Mahesh, but they are often perceived as spiritual leaders, when they are really practitioners of Vedic sciences. Like the rap the Maharishi got about selling mantras, but Maharishis mantras are not the same as Mahamantra, they don't have the same purpose - and then he transcribes the Gita (mistake), and it becomes even more confusing about who he is - he was a Vedic scientist just like Sai Baba who is also a Tantric magician, all these things become very confusing in Kali -- Its best to proceed with caution!
Haribol
Haribol Jivatattva Prabhu,
Haribol Jivatattva Prabhu, what you are stating is supported in the Bhavishya Purana where there is an elaborate description of Adam and Eve's lineage down to their descendant Noah (Nyuha) is given. The details are not similar but rather almost identical, all the names, etc.
However it is stated as you say that Adam was the father of the Mlechhas, the meat eating race of man, not all of mankind in general. Hare Krishna
Mlechhas
Yes this Mlechhas race is interesting because it seems as though it is predominant in the world today.
In biblical times even men of God in many instances were infested with lust, just like the meat eater is infested with parasites, and then ill health and bad fate causes a break down, and nature with its healing powers purges the illness, and they are right back at it again.
I think this is a master plan of the Lord - called something like 'give them enough rope' - and we are seeing a lot of egos hanging these days! But its all good, even when I'm hanging I try to see that its all good, I'm working on it by the mercy of the Lord.
Haribol
Revolution in Consciousness Video
http://connect.krishna.com/node/528 :)
Shirdi Sai Baba
Hare Krshna
What was that - Sai Baba 'is' a Tantric Magician ?
We are talking about SHIRDI SAI BABA who has left His body almost hundred years ago.
Varnashram Dharma said "He is just a social worker" , i did not comment on that, but i think now there seems to be some misunderstanding - i hope you are not talking about another
Sai Baba - who lives , since you used present tense 'is'.
Thank You Radhikesh Prabhu, for the info about Lord Dattatreya, at least you considered a Guru-avatar of Dattatreya, whether Dvaita or Advaita.
I am sorry i made this post. So far i have written here based on
1. Scriptural ref
2. Spiritual teachings
3. Personal Experiences
4. As witness to others' personal experiences.
This one was about personal experience. The similarity
is in Their Leelas, mission, compassion, dress and appearance.
That is all.
I was not even trying to make any connections.
Hare Krshna
Yes.The Same Shirdi Sai baba.
Hare Krishna,
Sorry for Replying late,as i was out of town on Business work.
You said,". Sai Baba of Shirdi - who is said to be a Datta-avtar - incarnation of Lord Dattatreya (Brahma - Vishnu - Mahesh Trimurti Datta). "
With due respect,Can you please give me any shastric Evidence that say Sai baba is the Incarnation of Lord Dattatreya,Vishnu and Mahesh simultaneously or any acharya Predicted that such Personality will come to do welfare of the people?.
We Follow on basis of Bona Fide Guru,Sadhu and Shastras.
Does any Bona fide Guru,Sadhu claims that Shirdi Saibaba is a God!!!?
If yes kindly let me know.
You said "and radiates Vedic teachings wherever He goes, performing miracles for His devotees"
Does his Folowers study the Vedic Teachings which he Radiated and which Vedic Teachings did he gave his followers?
If yes than what are those vedic teachings and are they same as Srila Prabhupada and Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Prabhupada taught the World.
You said"performing miracles for his Devotees"
A Devotee of a Lord(Vaishnavas) never Exibits Mystic Yoga.
Because attaining perfection through mystic siddhis is not the path of the true transcendentalists. By reading SB 6.11.25 and 3.9.23, our doubts will be solved.
Therefore, due to 2 reasons :
1) Because Mystic Yoga is not the process for Kali Yuga (as stated in SB 12.3.52)
2) Even if someone attains so called perfection of mystic yoga, according to SB 10.2.32, he will again fall down.
Because of these 2 reasons, any follower of Mystic Yoga cannot attain real perfection.And So one who haven't attain Real perfection how will he Guide others to perfect their life.
Also Read the Purport given By Srila Prabhupada in SB 4.24.42
"In this age of Kali, those who have a little fragmental portion of mystic power claim to be God, but such pseudo Gods can only be accepted as fools, for only Krishna is the Supreme Person who possesses all mystic and yogic perfections"
Even Lord Rishabdev,who was Master of Mystic Yoga,practised Mystic Yoga but never exibited it.
Indeed he utilised those Siddhis For Krishna Consciousness and made other so Called Yogis realise the Proper path of attaining Lord.
Also Remember Words of a Mouth can't be Authority.Just because some sentimental people claims Shirdi Saibaba is Incarnation of God,dosen't make him God.
Also I have said in my earlier post that Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Maharaj was present during Shirdi Saibaba,who Did The Real welfare of the people by spreading the The Nectar of Holy Name all corners of India.And Further by our Dear Srila Prabhuapada and his disciples all corner of The World.
Hope this meets you in Good health.
Thank you.
Yours sincerely,
Aditya.
See what I mean
No offense intended, but do you see what I mean?
"We have to remember that comparisons in Kali are subject to easy corruption."
Sai Baba vs. Sai Baba, sounds the same to me! Just like Krishna sounds like something else, and Jehovah sounds like something else, but is it really that something else?
I guess it requires more information to really know, like which Sai is which - or in the case of the Sai that I was talking about, which Sai is witch - or in the case of Maharishi and Sai, which witch is which.
I thought my first post was relatively general, but it seemed like we all wanted to talk about things that sound the same, so I was just chiming in :)
:) Haribol
Sai Baba vs Sai Baba
Hare Krishna
You're quite right Krushnali; There is a whale of difference between the Saint Shirdi Sai Baba who left his mortal body in 1918 and the controversial godman Sathya Sai Baba who lives in Puttaparthi, Andhra Pradesh.
My humble opinion is that a genuine Saint is one who points the way to God which Shirdi Sai Baba did.
And a godman is one who says that he himself is God or an Avatar of God which Sathya Sai Baba is known to do.
I think Jivatattva Prabhu was alluding to the latter.
More information on:
Shirdi Sai Baba: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirdi_Sai_Baba
Sathya Sai Baba:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sathya_Sai_Baba
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/this_world/3791921.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/this_world/3813469.stm
As Jivatattva Prabhu mentioned, in Kalyuga, we must truly proceed with caution!
Haribol.
Your eternal servant,
eternal muser
Dattatreya
Hare Krishna. It is interesting to note Krushnali's statement that Shirdi Sai Baba is said to be an incarnation of Dattatreya. Dattatreya, although an incarnation of the Lord, is said to have preached impersonalism. Srila Prabhupada mentions this in a purport in the 8th canto of Bhagavatam. Also in Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 17.185, Srila Prabhupada's purport says for the jnanis, the atheist Kapila, Vasistha, Durvasa, Dattatreya and other impersonalist philosophers are the mahajanas. So Varnashrama Dharma is right when he says that Saibaba preached Advaita.
Radhikesa dasa
Yes Prabhu you are right
Dattatreya is teaching the path of Mystic Yoga. Nobody can attain perfection by that path in Kali Yuga.
Nath Sampradaya (The 9 Mystic Yogis known as Naths - Macchindranath, Gorakshanath, JalanderNath, Kanifnath, Gahininath, Bhartrinath, Revananath, Charpatnath, Nagnath)
This sampradaya aims at liberation through mystic yoga. There are many branches of Nath Sampradaya. They cannot attain perfection because bhakti and guru-krishna-kripa are the only real perfections.
Instead of following the teachings of NavNath, one should follow the teachings of NavaYogendras. That can put us on the correct path of life.
To attain perfection through mystic siddhis is not the path of the true transcendentalists. By reading SB 6.11.25 and 3.9.23
Then there is the classic SB sloka which I always like to quote for those who are following paths other than bhakti :
SB 10.2.32
ye 'nye 'ravindäkña vimukta-mäninas
tvayy asta-bhäväd aviçuddha-buddhayaù
äruhya kåcchreëa paraà padaà tataù
patanty adho 'nädåta-yuñmad-aìghrayaù
Translation:
[Someone may say that aside from devotees, who always seek shelter at the Lord's lotus feet, there are those who are not devotees but who have accepted different processes for attaining salvation. What happens to them? In answer to this question, Lord Brahmä and the other demigods said:] O lotus-eyed Lord, although nondevotees who accept severe austerities and penances to achieve the highest position may think themselves liberated, their intelligence is impure. They fall down from their position of imagined superiority because they have no regard for Your lotus feet.
Also if you notice Dattatreya's picture has a cow and dog. In Krsna's picture, there are only cows. This shows that Dattatreya does not see any difference between one living entity and another (the idea of nirvisesavada or mayavada). Krsna also sees all living entities as one (as He says in BG 9.29), but Krsna recognizes the external difference in the bodies and species of the living entities (BG 13.22). Dattatreya however, expounds the impersonal philosophy that everything is ultimately illusion.
Hence you were Right!!!.
Hari Hari
Jesus Christ went to North India.
Reference:
Jesus Predicted in the Vedic Literature
By Stephen Knapp
Dr. Vedavyas goes on to say that the Bhavishya Purana describes how Jesus would visit Varanasi and other Hindu and Buddhist holy places. This is also corroborated by the manuscript on the life of Isha (or Issa), discovered by Mr. Notovich in 1886 at the Hemis monastery in Ladakh, India as well as by the Hebrew inscriptions found in Srinagar, Kashmir at the Roza bal, the tomb of Yuz Asaf [Isha or Issa]. The Bhavishya Purana also predicted how Jesus would meet Emperor Shalivahana who established the Shalivahana or “Saka” era. Dr. Vedavyas describes this in his Telegu book, Veerabrahmendra Yogipai Parishodhana.
The description that is taken to be of Jesus is found in verses 17-32 in the 19th chapter of the Chaturyuga Khanda Dvitiyadhyayah of the Bhavishya Purana. To get a clearer understanding, here is what the verses say:
Texts 17 - 21
vikramaditya-pautrasca
pitr-rajyam grhitavan
jitva sakanduradharsams
cina-taittiridesajan
bahlikankamarupasca
romajankhurajanchhatan
tesam kosan-grhitva ca
danda-yogyanakarayat
sthapita tena maryada
mleccharyanam prthak-prthak
sindhusthanam iti jneyam
rastramaryasya cottamam
mlecchasthanam param sindhoh
krtam tena mahatmana
ekada tu sakadiso
himatungam samayayau
“Ruling over the Aryans was a king called Shalivahana, the grandson of Vikramaditya, who occupied the throne of his father. He defeated the Shakas who were very difficult to subdue, the Cinas [Chinese], and the people from Tittiri and Bahikaus who could assume any form at will. He also defeated the people from Rome and the descendants of Khuru, who were deceitful and wicked. He punished them severely and took their wealth. Shalivahana thus established the boundaries dividing the separate countries of the mlecchas [low classes] and the Aryans. In this way Sindusthan came to be known as the greatest country. That personality appointed the abode of the mlecchas beyond the Sindhu River and to the west.”
Text 22
ekadaa tu shakadhisho
himatungari samaayayau
hunadeshasya madhye vai
giristhan purusam shubhano
dadarsha balaram raajaa
Once upon a time the subduer of the Sakas went towards Himatunga and in the middle of the Huna country (Hunadesh - the area near Manasa Sarovara or Kailash mountain in Western Tibet), the powerful king saw an auspicious man who was living on a mountain. The man’s complexion was golden and his clothes were white.
Text 23
ko bharam iti tam praaha
su hovacha mudanvitah
iishaa purtagm maam viddhi
kumaarigarbha sambhavam
“The king asked, ‘Who are you sir?’ ‘You should know that I am Isha Putra, the Son of God’, he replied blissfully, and ‘am born of a virgin.’”
Text 24
mleccha dharmasya vaktaram
satyavata paraayanam
iti srutva nrpa praaha
dharmah ko bhavato matah
“‘I am the expounder of the religion of the mlecchas and I strictly adhere to the Absolute Truth.’ Hearing this the king enquired, ‘What are the religious principles according to your opinion?’
Texts 25 - 26
shruto vaaca mahaaraaja
praapte satyasya samkshaye
nirmaaryaade mlechadeshe
masiiho 'ham samagatah
iishaamasii ca dasyuunaa
praadurbhuutaa bhayankarii
taamaham mlecchataah praapya
masiihatva mupaagatah
“Hearing this questions of Shalivahana, Isha putra said, ‘O king, when the destruction of the truth occurred, I, Masiha the prophet, came to this country of degraded people where there are no rules and regulations. Finding that fearful irreligious condition of the barbarians spreading from Mleccha-Desha, I have taken to prophethood’.”
Texts 27 - 29
mlecchasa sthaapito dharmo
mayaa tacchrnu bhuupate
maanasam nirmalam krtva
malam dehe subhaasbham
naiganam apamasthaya
japeta nirmalam param
nyayena satyavacasaa
manasyai kena manavah
dhyayena pujayedisham
suurya-mandala-samsthitam
acaloyam prabhuh sakshat-
athaa suuryacalah sada
“Please hear, Oh king, which religious principles I have established among the mlecchas. The living entity is subject to good and bad contaminations. The mind should be purified by taking recourse of proper conduct and performance of japa [meditation on the chanting of the holy names of God]. By chanting the holy names one attains the highest purity. Just as the immovable sun attracts, from all directions, the elements of all living beings, the Lord of the Surya Mandala [solar planet], who is fixed and all-attractive, and attracts the hearts of all living creatures. Thus by following rules, speaking truthful words, by mental harmony and by meditation, Oh descendant of Manu, one should worship that immovable Lord’.”
Text 30
isha muurtirt-dradi praptaa
nityashuddha sivamkari
ishamasihah iti ca
mama nama pratishthitam
“Having placed the eternally pure and auspicious form of the Supreme Lord in my heart, O protector of the earth planet, I preached these principles through the mlecchas’ own faith and thus my name became ‘isha-masiha’ (Jesus the Messiah).”
Text 31
iti shrutra sa bhuupale
natraa tam mlecchapujaam
sthaapayaamaasa tam tutra
mlecchasthaane hi daarune
“After hearing these words and paying obeisances to that person who is worshiped by the wicked, the king humbly requested him to stay there in the dreadful land of mlecchas.”
Text 32
svaraajyam praaptavaan raajaa
hayamedhan ciikirat
raajyam kriitvaa sa shashthyabdam
svarga lokamu paayayau
“King Shalivahana, after leaving his kingdom performed an asvamedha yajna and after ruling for sixty years, went to heaven. Now please hear what happened when the king went to (the heavenly region of) svargaloka.”
Thus ends the second chapter entitled, “The Age of Shalivahana” of the story of Kali Yuga of the Chaturyuga Khanda also called Pratisarga-parva of the wonderful Bhavishya Maha Purana.
Fake histories
The info in the original article seems to be borrowed from the book of Kersey Graves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kersey_Graves) 'The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors'. Although spurious it started its own life in New Age circles. Other authors using similar type of info were P.N. Oak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purushottam_Nagesh_Oak)
and Stephen Knapp (his Wiki article was cancelled, if I remember well). From my pov, it's a dead-end approach, doing more damage than merit, but these people won't admit it. The whole 'Jesus in India' issue is a controversial one, tainted by politics. Nicolas Notovitch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Notovitch) was a Russian spy involved in the pre-WWI world powers's political-military game in China, Tibet and India. Theosophy was a significant factor in this story.
Here's about the background of Bhavisya Purana:
http://veda.krishna.com/encyclopedia/sastras-studies1.htm#6
"Regarding Aquarian Gospel of Lord Jesus The Christ, I have taken some stray extracts just to support our views, but we don't give any importance to that book." (Letter to: Tamala Krsna -- Tittenhurst 14 September, 1969)
"Regarding books like Aquarian Gospel or even the Testiments, we cannot accept them as authorities because sometimes it is learnt that the words are not actually spoken by Christ, but they are so set up by the devotees." (Letter to: Hamsaduta -- Tittenhurst 2 November, 1969)
(Aquarian Gospel is a work derived from Notovitch's Secret Life of Jesus.)
Similarly, Srila Prabhupada once appreciated Watchtower's criticism of gay marriage done by some priest (PQPA 2: Vedic Culture: Varnasrama-dharma; SB 6.1.11 -- New York, July 25, 1971; etc.). But this can be hardly considered as his complete endorsement of JW's doctrine.