I guess this also goes with soy sauce (the fermentation does give development to trace amounts) and that natural occuring, tiny bits of alcohol in fruit juice...
I had my first taste of Krakus instant coffee substitute (I have always loved the taste of coffee minus the caffeine side effects), and I loved it. And being that some of my friends drink or did drink alcoholic beverages, I remembered that non-alcoholic beverages were on the market.
Being so, these non-alcoholic beers are sold in Saudi Arabia, as well all well know that Muslims do not drink alcohol.
But can we offer it, perhaps by just saying the mantra, even if it is only 0.05% or less? I know that such a beverage should not be encouraged, but no matter how much one drink this particular alternative libation, one can not get drunk. Some people who came to Krishna consciousness liked the taste of beer, despite the alcoholic content.
Jaya Radhe!
My take on it is that it
My take on it is that it seems to me that this beverage would only remind one of alcohol. And despite alcohol content, the beverage seems to still be steeped in the mode of ignorance. For example, a child, who generally has a taste for food in the mode of goodness, I would say would most likely not like the taste of this product. Most devotees previously have drunken alcohol in the past, and for some they were alcoholics, and it seems that the better method to substitute alcohol with Krishna Consciousness, instead of non alcoholic beer.
As practitioners of Krishna Consciousness it is best to somehow or other surround ourselves with sensory items that are in the mode of goodness and thus offer those items to Krishna.
Well, it is a little
Well, it is a little difficult for me to fathom, because for example, cheese would be considered terrible for people ayurvedically (because it is aged). Despite this understanding, Western devotees still use cheese in their diet. Or soy sauce (which is fermented, as well as vinegar) and soy products are seen with a very suspicious light by many devotees, or chocolate... Should one remove carob from one's diet as well because it reminds them of chocolate (minding that Srila Prabhupada never liked carob and called it 'hippy food')? Chocolate tastes good, but it is not in the mode of goodness whatsoever. Same with soy products.
And traditionally, all plants in the nightshade family, such as eggplants and tomatoes, were seen as asattvic. Honey should not be cooked because it becomes toxic ayurvedically, but devotees do it.
Many devotees drink soda, chips, hard candies and popcorn. Beck's non alcoholic beer (which I have tried long before) is in my opinion, healthier than soda (it only contains water, barley malt and hops) and has no yeast so there is no fermentation process, and thus no alcohol is really produced (unlike other non alcoholic beers where it is produced, and then the alcohol is vacuumed). I drink Krakus because I like the taste, although it is called "Instant Coffee Substitute." It is made with roasted chicory root, barley, rye, and beet roots. Just because I consume something that tastes like coffee, does not necessarily mean that I wish to or want to drink the caffeinated substitute, nor do I hanker for caffeine.. my attachment is merely of taste alone, and I offer that to Krishna.
And then there are devotees who cook too much fried foods, salty foods, too many sweets, etc. Normally, these would be considered rajasic; however, because they were offered, they are still okay to eat for devotees.
According to Ayurveda, devotees should not mix fruit with dairy or grains, but so many devotees make fruit salad (which I have heard Srila Prabhupada did not like) or make pastries with fruit...
But I do not say that it is something for the majority of peoples to drink, especially those who have alcoholically inclined past or present. But with all our material attachments and offenses, I do not see anything particularly wrong with beer (beer is just a fermented, malt beverage - alcoholic or otherwise) if there is no alcohol and someone who has never drunk alcohol likes the taste, since bitter foods are necessary to stimulate and continue digestion.
But these dietary laws do get nitpicky sometimes for me even... I was told by a devotee for example, that I should not cook with pasta unless I made it by myself, as well as that I should never use something frozen or canned (I use canned coconut milk quite a bit in my cooking). I guess I am just confused. To me, the idea of offering everything to the Lord is the whole meaning of sattvic foods, or even foods due to saltiness or spiciness are rajasic; offering in love and devotion is the whole point, and what is offerable and what is not is more secondary.
I just am not convinced...
Haribol!
I am little confused why you
I am little confused why you asked this question, seems that you already have you answer.
But as the Mahabharata states, "arguments fail to reveal truth.
- mahajano yena gatah sa panthah better to just follow the path that the great devotees have given." In my personal life with Krishna Consciousness I have not found any experienced devotee advocating this path.
Nitpicky is an understatement ; )
My experience has been that for every person I ask I get a slightly different answer, based on their bias. (The three modes of material nature). If you ask me I'll tell you my opinion with my own bias of course. : )
What you have observed is true. There is some confusion. There is no list with definitions and glossary to satisfy us. That's why we end up asking others. I am not so sure that asking a lot of people is a good way to work out the answers to these things. We should seek the advice of our seniors and Guru.
It seems there are possibly two types of things under discussion here.
One is what you would like to drink and eat, compared to what Krishna would like to eat or drink.
The other is the difference between what will or won't be allowed to offered at a temple compared to you at home.
The things that are offered should fall into the catagory of what Krishna likes to eat or drink.
Temples are very strict about offering, you might not be so strict at home.
I bet there would be no temple that would offer beer or non-alcohol beer. I don't think they would offer 'soda' either. (Carbonated drinks are particularly unhealthy form of beverages.)
The way you describe it I think that this stuff you mention is not beer, beer means fermented. It sounds like soda flavoured with something. Now here is Australia Ginger Beer is very popular, we all made it at home when we were kids. What you describe is something like that I think. Or Root Beer which is again seems to be no beer at all.
Offering is about developing love and surrender. What is offered should reflect that it is not secondary it is equal.
I say that to find out what Krishna likes is the best way. Now what I like or what you like.
If you knew me, and you invited me for lunch you would not offer me something that looks like beer and tastes like beer because I don't like beer. You would probably ask what I liked and if you really liked me you would offer me that.
I think (bias alert) that Krishna doesn't like beer or anything like it. So I wouldn't offer him beer or beer tasting things.
Offerings at home is are not usually as strict and opulant as the Temple. The job of the temple is to set the standard. At the temple they like to make things from fresh as possible food.
So if it's not beer and it is it's soda, I would still say it is not to be offered. Soda is far from fresh.
I would suggest seeking advice from a Guru if you are not satisfied.
Funniliy enough, we should accept the answer that is true, not that one that satisfies us. That's how we got here in the first place.
I feel like I am just rambling in now so I'll stop. I hope I am helping some.
Hare Krishna
________________________________________
Visit the Food Channel @ Krishna.com
I've heard that Balaram
I've heard that Balaram likes beer though (Varuni's honey)... XD
In any case, yes, I do understand. But I do say, does Krishna like chips, homemade vegetarian sushi and tofu? I really doubt Krishna would like the bland taste of tofu... And sushi, when it is reminiscent of fish.
With soda, although perhaps Krishna at the temple does not like it, He does seem to accept the soda offered by congregational devotees, especially at home programs and celebratory occasions, and there are many devotees who are much higher in sadhana than I am who seem to enjoy soda and chips every now and then. And then there's cheese... Cheese is aged and not very good for you, unless it is curd...
But if we offered only what Krishna liked, then we would be eating kheer and ghee-soaked foodstuffs every day! And that can not be healthy for us; God can eat as much ghee and kheer as He wishes, and He still looks attractive while doing it. And although I know that Krishna does love dairy products, I must limit my dairy intake, else I gain weight very easily.
It's still all confusing, and I just like to think that that Krishna enjoys consuming the devotion of the person who wishes to enjoy His remnants, rather than the foodstuff itself. Besides, I know that devotees can also get attached to whether a foodstuff tastes better than another's, although both cooks may have been cooking with bhakti towards Krishna.
There are many things that we offer that are not fresh, like cheese, pasta, spring rolls (if I make them from spring roll wrappers bought from the supermarket), tofu and soy sauce, and canned coconut milk (a semi-staple in my food diet). I want to learn to vegetarianise some Asian dishes (as a birthed Asian myself), but I can not replicate tastes unless I use soy sauce, which is aged to a degree in itself.
If some substance is offered with love and devotion to Krishna, even if it is a soy product or chocolate (many devotees that I know are very biased against soy and chocolate; I do not eat chocolate myself, but I do believe that Krishna will still see the sincerity of people when they offer Him chocolate), would Krishna not accept it?
In any case, I think asking a spiritual master would be best. Although beer is just an example, to cut out things that are aged and what Krishna may not like may include cheese (exception of curd), soy sauce, soy cheese and my beloved soy milk... XD (There's my attachments again!)
On a separate but related note, I have heard that I can not offer pasta or any dish I have made from using cans (like chickpeas or coconut milk) towards Krishna directly, and thus can instead offer it to Srila Prabhupada. Is this true?
Haribol, I was hoping that
Haribol, I was hoping that your reply to my comment but that is ok, "But as the Mahabharata states, "arguments fail to reveal truth.
- mahajano yena gatah sa panthah better to just follow the path that the great devotees have given." In my personal life with Krishna Consciousness I have not found any experienced devotee advocating this path."
So our process is to follow the footsteps of previous acharyas, whatever path they set we follow and then examine its benefits from that perspective. Simply stated, we do not manufacture our own standards by logic or any other reasoning including scripture. Regarding your question, no actually nothing do we offered to Krishna directly it is always done via medium of the guru, spiritual master. Yes there are some items that are not ok to offer to the Deity form of the Lord as a standard of Deity worship but there are items that we can offer just to Guru asking him to offer the item to Krishna. There are even items that we offer to Krishna that we cannot partake of, such as Betel nut, we do not take Betel nut as per acharya's instruction due to the intoxicating affect of Betel nut. There is also a plant seed that is offered to Krishna in His shila form. We do not eat the plant seed, although it is prasadam, because it is extremely poisonous and can cause immediate death.
Hare Krishna
Your humble servant,
Nityananda Chandra Das
"There are even items that
"There are even items that we offer to Krishna that we cannot partake of, such as Betel nut, we do not take Betel nut as per acharya's instruction due to the intoxicating affect of Betel nut. There is also a plant seed that is offered to Krishna in His shila form. We do not eat the plant seed, although it is prasadam, because it is extremely poisonous and can cause immediate death."
Wow. o__o;
I was just told by devotees who are older than me that I should try as much as possible to make my home standard of cooking closer to the temple standard as much as possible, even to making my own pasta.
Forgive me if I seem argumentative; I try not to be so, but I have always been like "...but how about this...?"
Anyways, I think that non-alcoholic beer as an example, is a lesser matter of importance, and what's more important should be our japa, our continual taste for Krishna-prasadam, and then following the four regulative principles of life. Thank you so much for your guidance; I will definitely take note! n__n
Haribol!
Thank you, and this
Thank you, and this conversation brings up the importance of association with Guru, either Shisha or Diksha, without which I would be completely confused at all times. For example making one's own pasta may be applicable to you and others due to your environment, talents and knowledge, or maybe not. But it is sure that it was not applicable to Srila Prabhupada when he came to the US with just $7, at that time and circumstance had had other priorities to focus on. So this what guru helps with, practical application of the many principles of Krishna Consciousness. And because the guru knows us personally and knows our circumstance he instructs us accordingly.
Thanks Antony Prabhu for you
Thanks Antony Prabhu for you nice contribution.