I'm glad this topic came up, because this is something I've been thinking about quite a bit. Without boring everyone with an account of various events in my fairly recent past, I have to say that while my desires today are more wholesome than they were in the past, there are some I won't give up, and do not want to give up. I have three basic desires, two of which are entirely material. First, I am working on a career change -- partly because I'm bored with what I currently do and I want a new challenge, partly because almost all of my time is taken up working two jobs, and frankly, I want to work less for better economic stability. Once I get this better paying job, I have no desire for a fancy car, designer clothes, or fancy feasts -- but I do want, more than anything else material, to buy myself a small house. I keep asking myself, why do I want the house? Well, despite my not having a whole lot of junk, (and when I do, I make a trip to my favorite Goodwill store to drop some stuff off!), I have barely a square yard (meter) of floor space anywhere! I can have two guests at a time, and have nowhere to set up a home temple, which is something I would love to do!
Also, I miss my garden from my old house. So, my third desire is ... to attain the kind of relationship with the Lord so I won't want anything else! I just don't think I can attain that wish while I'm tripping over my dog's dishes and fighting a mild case of claustrophobia! My thought is, having said all this, is that I'm not sure that all desire is bad, or if it IS all bad, some desires are worse than others, and some desires are more noble than others. Does anyone else out there have any dilemmas like mine? Any thoughts? Please share! :)
Dove Tails Etc...
Hi Dach!
I have to tell you I'm with Radikesh on all the things he said here. This is my understanding also.
How can you think your desire to not trip over dog dishes and therefore be unable to think, what to speak of think in a devotional way is wrong????
It's not.
The main thing is that you are "desiring" a better life, a truly "better life" would mean becoming MORE Krishna conscious. It's difficult to become more Krishna conscious (for most of us, myself included) if we have such a difficult, non-conducive environment.
Prabhupad talks a lot about:
Accepting what is good for Krishna Consciousness,
and
Rejecting what is not good for Krishna Consciousness.
Therefore, actually, it would seem to me, that "rejecting" your present living condition for one that is more favorable to your Krishna consciousness would actually be:
Devotional Service.
Not, material desires.
Thanks for listening!
Navasi
Go Navasi devi das
I agree.
Also people don't realize the power of their thoughts over the actions.
Devotional Service has us thinking and acting in the sphere of sattva. Over time this imbues us with bhakti and it feeds into all the areas of our loves and we start thinking about things in a different way.
We start questioning (in our minds) our friends, our work, our entertainment activities. Our being desires for a more sattvic environment. Then we find ourselves planning for it. How lucky for us.
________________________________________
Visit the Food Channel @ Krishna.com
Sattvic
Go Antony, Ki Jai! :)
And what does Sattvic mean?
That's a sanskrit word... and it means goodness.
There are three modes of material nature:
Goodness
Passion
Ignorance
So what Antony is saying here, is that when you start becoming more Krishna conscious, you start moving out of the lower modes, and into the higher modes.
The mode of Ignorance is the lowest one, characterized by sleeping a lot, intoxication, ect...
Then next higher mode is the mode of Passion, characterized by great endeavors for material success, money, position, etc...
Then the highest mode is the mode of Goodness, characterized by knowledge and happiness.
Of course we understand that Krishna consciousness Transcends all these three modes of material nature, because they are all just that: material nature, thus, not spiritual.
But, the point Antony's making here, is that when making some advancement in Krishna consciousness, one begins to move into a more "mode of goodness" type of consciousness, which makes certain things become suddenly unbearable which might not have even been considered to be a problem previously.
So, that's a sign of advancement. :)
Love,
Navasi
RE Sattvic
Uh oh, and here I thought I was sleeping any chance i got because I work too much! (lol) Wouldn't people pretty much slide between each level? I don't think I've ever experienced the mode of goodness, but I do think I'm less in the mode of ignorance than I used to be ... but then I have a bout of the "oh poor me's" and pig out and take a nap.
The irony here, for me, is that if I were to increase my devotional service, I would require less sleep, and I'd have more time to continue teaching myself how to chant! I'd worry less about time because I'd have more if I slept less!
Sliding Levels
Hare Krishna, Dear Dachsowned,
Yes, this is a very good point you've made here!
In fact people do slide between the levels, or mix these levels, all the time, that's a fact!
Hardly anyone is in only one of these modes (or levels) only and no other.... most everyone is a combination, or mix, of the three.
Of course most people will be predominantly in one or the other.
It's kind of like astrology in a sense, where you have your sun sign, and then you also have your rising sign, etc...
Your are predominantly influenced by your sun sign, but your rising sign will also be there influencing you also....
So, it's the same way with these three modes of material nature, or levels as you put it.... they are all influencing in differing degrees, from time to time, though usually people are more "predominantly" in one, than another.
For example: someone who spends all their time getting intoxicated, but also wants a great career and a lot of money.
Well, that's someone in the mode of ignorance, predominantly, (because they are intoxicated most of the time) who is also "influenced" by the mode of passion (because they also have a strong desire from money and success).
It's not a thing to worry about, however, because the whole point here is that Krishna consciousness is about "transcending" all of these three modes, or levels.... not trying to become more in the mode of goodness. Trying to become more in the mode of goodness is just another material mode. It's not spiritual, and it's not something we need to endeavor for.
It doesn't mean you are more Krishna conscious if you are in the mode of goodness.... in fact sometimes it can be just the opposite.
For example: the residents of the heavenly planets, they are in the mode of goodness, they enjoy life very much and everything is pleasing to them.... this keeps them from wanting to become more involved with Krishna.... so, it's actually in the way of their Krishna consciousness....
So, it's a good thing to understand about theses various modes, but not get too caught up in trying to move into higher ones, but rather, to transcend all of them by chanting and becoming more Krishna conscious.
Which, it certainly seems like you're attempting to do... :) :) :)
Love,
Navasi
Oh thanks
That is exactly what I meant to say : )
It is very interesting how your thinking changes from MMmmm look at that to Oh What not that again!
It might seem like a negative but it is actually a great positive.
After a while you learn to intuitively discriminate between what aligns you with Krishna Consciousness and what doesn't.
This is another Sanskrit word Viveka the power or capaity of discrimination.
Chanting and devotional service in general produce this. Actually two things. Viveka and Vairagya, they kind of grow together. Discrimination for what is Sattvic (in the mode of goodness) and Vairagya which is dispassion for the things that are not in the mode of goodness. (Other wise things that are in the mode of passion and ignorance.)
So by this you realise just get jack of the things that are holding you back and you get the desire (in the mode of goodness of course) to give them up.
You stop having to fight your ignorant and passionate desires. Of course not right away and when it happens you hardly realzse it unless you have a experienced teacher who can observe these things in you and encourage their development. In Sanskrit that is Guru. Jai Guru Deva, Om (Yes the Beatles did sing this in their song Across the Universe.)
Thanks Navasi devi dasi : )
________________________________________
Visit the Food Channel @ Krishna.com
Saying Things
Lol, that's what I meant to say, , , Antony... lol :)
I need some of that Viveka, I haven't got any...
Are you giving that out on the Food Channel by any chance?
Or at least maybe the recipe???
And, what's "getting jack of things" is that a term from the Land of Oz? What's it mean?
lol :)
Navasi
Regarding Sleep!!
Hare Krishna Mataji. This is so wonderful. I never knew about the qualities of people who are in different modes which has been so fantastically stated by you. One thing you said that people who sleep a lot are in the mode of ignorance, this sounds very interesting. May be now I am able to understand why devotees sleep very less. I wanted to ask you a question about people who sleep a lot, is it that this is because they are very sinful and when they chant Hare Krishna their sins are burnt thus they are able to sleep less. Even worshippers of demigods are lifted higher to the mode of goodness, does this mean that even they sleep less after getting into the mode of goodness.
Love,
Mihir
Transcending
Hare Krishna, Dear Mihir,
I'm very glad you liked my explanation so much. :)
The reason people sleep a lot is because they are influenced by the mode of ignorance.
The reason people who chant Hare Krishna tend to start sleeping less is because they are Transcending the Modes of Material Nature, as you have read in the post above.
I have not studied the worshipers of demigods, so I cannot tell you about their sleeping habits.
However, generally people who are in the mode of goodness will be sleeping a lot less than people in the mode of ignorance, or the mode of passion.
I hope this helps,
Hare Krishna,
Love,
Navasi Devi Dasi
Passionate People
Hare Krishna, Dear Mihir,
You know, I've been thinking about what you asked me, regarding the people in the mode of goodness, and do they therefore sleep less.. etc.
I think it would actually be more accurate for me to say that possibly people in the mode of passion might be the ones who would sleep the least, rather than what I said above about the people in the mode of goodness would generally sleep the least.
Actually the mode of passion is more likely to have people sleeping very little, and having lots of energy, and accomplishing a lot of things... etc..
That's the mode of passion, or some of the qualities of it anyway, and so actually it seems to me that those persons would possibly sleep the least of all, even less perhaps that those in the mode of goodness, who would be more peaceful by nature, and thus able to sleep a little bit more.
Sleeping the proper amount of hours is not a bad thing, it's important and it's conducive for Krishna consciousness.
Hare Krishna,
(try to sleep enough, Mihir, but not too much, that's regulation, and that's the best thing) :) :) :)
Love,
Navasi
Re:Passionate People
Dear Mataji, Hare Krishna!!
Thank you for such an informative post. :) By reading what you have written I have come to an understanding that I am in the mode of ignorance as I sleep extremely a lot. Well it was quite new to me that people in the mode of passion sleep very less. This is very scary to me because I am even worst than the people in the mode of passion LOL. However I think there might be a few exceptions like Srila Prabhupada who slept very less still He was not in the mode of passion. :) Looks like knowledge about this science is very difficult to understand theoritically and I will have to wait till I experience it practically the way all the wonderful devotees on this forum have experienced it personally. :)
Love,
Mihir
Srila Prabhupad
Hare Krishna, Dear Mihir,
Very good example.
Yes, of course Srila Prabhupad is a very good example, as you have said, because since He is a Pure Devotee, He is completely transcendental to any material mode at all, of any kind.
None of those modes would apply to Him at all, not even goodness, because he was above them all, being situated in Pure Krishna consciousness.
That's the point I've been trying to make all through this discussion, is that Krishna consciousness Transcends the modes of material nature.
So, that's a very astute observation you've made, Mihir.
Thank you for that.
Love,
Navasi
Krishna Consciousness is Wonderful!!
Hare Krishna Dearest Mataji,
Thank you for finally making me understand the whole concept. Now I am sure that I will atleast have no doubts about the devotees sleeping less and the people in the mode of passion sleeping less. Thank you so for so kindly and patiently helping me understanding the entire concept. :) :) :)
Love,
Mihir
:) :) :)
Hare Krishna,
You're welcome, Mihir : ) :) :)
Thank you so much
Hare Krishna Mataji, thank you for your wonderful anwer. By your kindness I have come to realize that I am seriously in the mode of ignorance as I sleep a lot. Looks like I will have to increase my sincerity in Krishna Consciousness. :)
Love,
Mihir
You're Welcome :)
You're very welcome, Mihir,
It certainly sounds to me like you have the right idea! :)
Love,
Navasi
Dovetailing desries
Hare Krishna. Desire is part of every soul and can never be taken away. Srila Prabhupada writes in the Gita that it is not a question of conditioned life but desire is part of the soul. So all of us have desires. And I dont see anything wrong with the desires you have written about. You want a better job to get economic stability to get a house to entertain more guests to set up a temple at home. So your desire is dovetailed with Krishna's service - kind of the end justifies the means. We need to worry about only those desires that keep us separate from Krishna. And your third desire shows really where your heart is. We should keep praying (chanting) calling out to Radha and Krsna to engage us in their service.
Radhikesh das
Is there not mention of
Is there not mention of desire trees in Goloka Vrndavan, which would indicate desire even in the spiritual world.?
Kalpa vrksa
Haribol. There are desire trees in Goloka. And there are desires in the spiritual world. The devotee always desires in various ways to please Krishna. The desires there are thus always pure free from mundane inebriety. The desires of the devotees are always one with those of Krishna's. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura writes in Brahma Samhita 5.29: "The purpose tree (of the material world) yields only the fruits of piety, wealth, fulfillment of desire and liberation; but the purpose trees in the abode of Krsna bestow innumerable fruits in the shape of checkered divine love. " This means devotees there use the trees to satisfy Krsna.
Radhikesh das
Good Observation!!
You have made a very good observation. In Goloka Vrindavan there are desire trees which give any types of fruits that is desired. Even I am wondering, dont these desires take people away from Krishna as the desire of eating fruits is for personal sense gratification and not for the pleasure of Krishna. Secondly what if we become personally become desire trees in Goloka Vrindavan, then how do we satisfy our senses, ofcourse besides serving Krishna. If we become desire trees then all the people take what ever fruits they desire from us but how do we enjoy the way they do ?
Desires in Goloka Vrindavan
Dear Jai Shri Krishna,
Beautiful name, by the way..... makes me think of Krishna just to say it , type it , think it... : )
In Goloka Vrindavan there is no other desire than to serve Krishna, that's the nature of the place so to speak.
No one there has any other desire except to love, serve and please Krishna. If the did, they wouldn't be there, they'd be here.
In this material world like we are. That's the only difference between why they are there and we are here.
We have desires other than to serve, love and please only
Krishna.
Jai Shri Krishna!!!! :)
Thank you,
Navasi