In the Bhagavad Gita chapter 9 text 2 PURPORT, Srila Prabhupada said,
'It is said that the execution of devotional service is so perfect that
one can perceive the results directly. This direct result is actually
perceived, and we have practical experience that any person who is
chanting the holy names of Krsna (Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna,
Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare) in course of
time feels some transcendental pleasure and very quickly becomes
purified of all material contamination'.
Here Srila Prabhupada has clearly stated that a person who chants the mahamantra, feels some transcendental pleasure in a VERY SHORT TIME. It is stated in the Srimad Bhagavatam that Lord Krishna is the Original Lord thus it is very difficult to please Him. However in the purport it has been clearly stated against what it is said in the Bhagavatam that it does not take a long time to attain transcendental pleasure. This has confused me deeply.
I have asked many devotees, how much time it takes after chanting, to get transcendental pleasure. Being pure and humble nobody gives an exact reply and they just say, there is no fixed time and it all depends on your sincerity. Well I know, it depends on my sincerily but I would find it very encouraging if all the devotees out here could forget their purity and humbleness for sometime and let me know about their personal experiences, in how much time did all of you get transcendental pleasure so that I can get deeply inpspired and encouraged thus chant with determination.
In course of Time
My understanding of this statement by Srila Prabhupada is that after a time (not specified) we will get some transcendental pleasure, and at THAT point we will very quickly become purified.
If peronal experience enthuses you then I can relate my own...I chanted mechanically for many years (after the initial enthusiastic and concentrated effort)...when I realised that this should be corrected, I made a concerted effort to chant attentive quality Japa everyday.
After rectifying my Japa, I now (at those times when I achieve a good quality of chanting) feel blissful, clear and still in my mind...it doesn't always happen but Krsna will give you this taste according to your endeavour i.e., to chant attentively and with great concentration and determination.
I love you :)
Rasa, you are a very good devotee. I really must tell you, no devotee has been so encouraging to me compared to you. You are the only one who has been able to understand me well. By letting me know your personal experience I feel so encouraged now, all the credit goes to you. For being so sincere I really pray to Lord Krishna to bestow all his blessings on you :). Thank you once again for your sincerity my dearest Rasa. :)
Glad to be of Service
Please see the comments below in reply to Radhikesha prabhu.
Chanting
Haribol Jai Shree Krishna,
I can relate to that. I have been chanting for many years but hardly have any taste. But I can clearly see why. In the purport you have cited, Srila Prabhupada says that in course of time we feel transcendental pleasure. He does not say immediately. Of course, he also says very quickly becomes free from material contamination. Now we should balance this with what Srila Prabhupada says in many other places. He had said that if one chants without offenses, very soon one will get purified and feel pleasure. So the key is to chant without offenses.
I certainly know that I dont do that. My mind keeps wandering, and from inattention comes all other offenses (according to Bhaktivinoda Thakura). And when I do chant attentively I feel happiness atleast for that small amount of time.
And it is not very difficult to please Krishna. He is satisfied with simple offerings but done with love. So when we give our love to Him, He is willing to come under a devotee's control. Srila Prabhupada had said that the process is easy but the application is a little difficult. Again, this is due to our offenses.
Krishna says how to control the mind: abhyasa and vairagya - repeated practice and detachment. When we are detached from mundane things which are not useful to serve Krishna, our minds wander less. And we need to repeatedly bring the mind to the holy name. That way the mind stays with the name. When I have done this, believe me, I really feel pleasure.
Now you have asked in how much time we all get pleasure. This assumes that in certain time, we always derive pleasure when chanting. I think this is an exalted stage - of spontaneous love for Krishna. I would say most of us are works in progress, practicing sadhana bhakti, and aiming to reach the spontaneous platform of pure chanting.
So to get deeply inspired and chant with determination, we should start chanting with determination that we will keep our minds in check and avoid the offenses. This has been my experience.
Radhikesh das
Regarding Offenses!!
Dear Prabhuji, Hare Krishna!!
Hare Krishna Prabhuji,
The above information is very nice and I have got to learn a lot from it. :) However in the above statement you have said
' if one chants without offenses, very soon one will get purified and feel pleasure. So the key is to chant without offenses.'
Here you have given the importance of chanting without offenses that is if a person chants without offenses then he can get purified. However in my case I am finding it very difficult to leave some habbits. Thus it is very difficult for me to chant without offenses. I know the key to leave bad habbits is to associate with devotees, in my case I am not even being able to associate with devotees due to some personal problems.
Well can you please guide me whether it is compulsory to chant without offenses or I should wait for devotional service to purify me so that I can leave bad habbits. ?
Love,
Mihir.
Rasa Rasika Prabhu
Haribol Mihir.
Is it compulsory to cook without wet fuel or should we wait for the wood to dry so that I can finally boil my rice?
Srila Prabhupada said that chanting with offenses is like cooking and at the same time pouring water on the fuel - cooking with smoke. This will take a long time to cook. So if we chant with offenses, it will take a very long time to make progress. And unless we make serious endeavor to improve, devotional service is not going to sprout automatically to purify us.
I read the nice postings you did on japa. And also by other devotees like Gopi Gita Mataji. At least by hearing such nice things, for a few days, I try to be determined and chant good japa. Let us not lose heart and give up. Let us try and try again. No doubt our minds will fail us again and again. But abhyasa - repeated practice is what is required.
I would like if Rasa Rasika Prabhu (rasa108) can comment on this. His posts on japa are really inspiring and tasteful.
Radhikesh das
Thank you Radhikesh prabhu
Thank you for your kind comments...I don't deserve anything from the devotees but somehow Krsna has revealed to me the importance of attentive Japa and He has facilitated this with some small realisation and encouragement.
I started the online Japa Group at the beginning of last year, in the hope that devotees would share their thoughts and help each other in one of the most important aspects of our spiritual lives.
I hope the admin don't mind me saying this, but if you so desire it would be an honour for the devotees here to join the Japa Group
Please write to my email address (rasa108@gmail.com) and I can send you an invite to join the group...there have been so many nice writings here, it would be great to also see that on the Japa Group and inspire others.
Smart!
You're so smart, Mihir.... :)
I sure hope someone will answer this very brilliant question for you!
Love,
Navasi
GOOD ONE!!
That was indeed a very inspiring answer Radhikesh Das Prabhu. However I do understand that you are very humble and pure for which reason you have said, you have not got the taste. You have an experience of chanting for more than 30 years. I am sure in these 30 years you have already avoided all the offences, have attained pure love for Krishna and may be Krishna might have also revealed his relationship to you. Ofcourse out of your humbleness I know you will not agree with anything to what I have said. As I understood from your explantion, the key to get transcendental pleasure is to avoid the offenses and not wait for the mahamantra to burn your material contaminations.
I am sorry, I have one more question and would be very happy if you could answer the same.
In the scriptures it is said
' japa is of three kinds-japa, antarjalpa, and mental jalpa. In the language of the science of incantation, these are known as voiced, low-voiced, and silent (i.e. mental).Basically, the whole process constitutes an effort to migrate from the gross to the subtle, from the visible to the invisible world. Gross sound produces gross vibrations and subtle sound produces subtle vibrations. Subtle vibrations are far more powerful than the gross ones Nevertheless, in the initial stages of bringing about a change, gross vibrations have a role to play. But in the higher stages it is necessary to move towards subtle vibrations, because the state of meditation can be attained only through these. Loud japa is gross; low-toned japa is an advance upon the former; at the level of mental japa, the distance between knowledge and. the. word disappears. Here language and thought get very near to each other. In gross vibrations, language and thought function separately.'
From the above lines it can be understood that mental japa is the most powerful as it only uses the subtle mind. Then why do you recommend people to use low toned japa instead of mental japa. I agree, initially as the mind wanders, loud japa can be used but with practice can't we shift to mental japa. Once I had met devotees of Lord Shiva, they told me, moving of lips while chanting produces no effect. I have greatly got confused due to this. Please be kind enough to guide me with the same.
Your Aspiring Servant.
Haribol
Prabhu, I just described my experience with chanting. I didnt say I have got the taste now, rather the opposite. I said when I tried to be determined, that time I experience some taste. And I never said that I am chanting for 30 years and avoided offenses and attained pure love of Krsna etc etc. Please, I am not trying to be humble. I am still enamored by maya and have lots of impurities. My only hope is since I have some interest in Krishna consciousness, one day by the mercy of Vaishnavas and Krishna, I may get a particle of devotion. This is not humility but plain facts.
Now to your question. Can you please tell me which scripture says this. Where did you read this? Lord Caitanya, Haridas Thakura, Srila Prabhupada and others recommend chanting the maha mantra loudly so that not only us but others who hear it will get benefited. What you quoted says '...the distance between knowledge and word disappears'. What knowledge and what word? The names of Krishna are transcendental and there is no difference between His name and Himself. And it is an offense to give some mundane interpretation to the name saying distance between knowledge and word. This sounds like Mayavada to me.
Haridas Thakura chanted about 300000 names a day. It is said he chanted 100000 names loudly, 100000 names in a low voice and 100000 names in mind. But he did not make distinction between mental japa and low toned japa and gross japa.
We need to take instructions from Srila Prabhupada, who represents Krishna and who comes in a disciplic succession of pure devotees. When Lord Caitanya chanted the holy names, He went into deep ecstasy and His guru said this is the effect of the holy names. He moved His lips, opened it widely and chanted and made the whole world Krsna conscious. That is the effect chanting of Krsna's names produce. Again to give mundane interpretation saying moving of lips produce no effect is an offense to the holy name, and naturally people who talk like that will get no effect from chanting.
Hope this helps
Radhikesh das
Hari Bol
I am very sorry for making interpretations about you and your personal life though I know for sure, you have been chanting for more than 20 years as I have heard from my friends in Mumbai. I simply interpreted what my friends interpreted about you. I deeply aplogize for that.
I dont know which scriptures say that, devotees of Lord Shiva said, it is in the vedas. They dint give me the exact location in the Vedas. Maybe the rules for worshipping Lord Shiva will be, not to move the lips where as the rules for worshipping Lord Krishna will be to move the lips. As you said, it makes more sense to listen to what the Prabhupada said.
When it says the distance between knowledge and word disappears they mean; in mental japa the chanting takes place in the form of thought which is produced in the mind thus thought and japa are non-different from each other thus it is very powerful. It says chanting loudly is different from thought as it uses the gross body. I hope this helps. Secondly you said all this sounds like Mayavada, can you please explain what is the meaning of Mayavada as I am not an expert in all these terms.
You said, chanting loudly also helps the other living creatures around us. Is there any other reason why chanting loudly is superior to mental japa ?
Your Servant.
Mayavada
Haribol Prabhu. No need for apologies. You didnt commit any mistake to apologize.
In the Mayavada theory, something or the other keeps disappearing. Usually what we call as Mayavada is the theory that the soul disappears into Brahman when it attains perfection. In the strict sense of the term Mayavada means the blasphemy that Krishna's form is made of maya.
When we chant Krishna's names, the tongue on which the name dances, the mind which thinks of Krishna all becomes transcendental. At no stage does something disappear into anything else. Everything merges into transcendence in the sense that everything becomes spiritual but retain their individual identity. The names are transcendental. Right from the beginning when we chant loudly or softly, the tongue, mind, body, our very existence becomes spiritualized. This is because of Krsna's presence.
Japa is always powerful - whether done loudly or softly. When done softly it helps oneself but when done loudly, it benefits all living beings - the plants, the animals and even the humans who dont want to chant. I dont think we need to classify this japa is superior to that japa or anything like that. But in general, loud chanting helps others too. May be others can give other benefits of loud chanting.
Radhikesh das
THANK YOU RADHIKESH PRABHU
I would like to thank you for not only inspiring me mentally and intellectually but for also making an impact on my spiritual life by communicating through your heart.