Hare Krishna!
An atheist friend (a strong proponent of modern science) and I were once having an argument on the existence of God! He asked me to show him God! First I retorted, using one of Mahatma Gandhi’s famous quotes, ‘I am more convinced of the presence of God than I am of your presence in this room!’
My friend was not impressed. He came back with a taunt of his own, ‘But that is your belief, I cannot see Him! Show Him to me and then I may believe in His existence!’
I was confounded! Not because I could not prove the existence of God to my friend, but because I was left wondering, WHY was it necessary to prove the existence of God.
Is it not possible to see the hand, indeed the very presence of Krishna in every single thing in existence and every event that occurs around us?! The colours in the flowers, the music in a bird’s song, the coolness of a breeze, the brilliance of the sun….in short, everything. HOW indeed can we not observe these phenomena and not realize the existence of God, is it really necessary to prove anything??!
I suddenly saw him in the unfortunate position of a man who is blindfolded, but raving and ranting that he cannot see anything.
He went on about how there was a Total Absence of confusion in his mind, what could be proved, existed and what could not, simply did not exist. And how for him, there was a Total Absence of a need for a ‘crutch’ called God.
His ignorance left me speechless. My sympathetic silence may have been interpreted by him as a ‘victory’, but I was tempted to add ‘Total absence of the capability to perceive the presence of Krishna’ to his list of ‘Total Absences’!
Haribol!
Eternal Muser
Srila Prabhupada argued the same
Hare Krishna, Dear Eternal Muser,
All glories to Lord Nityananda and Lord Gauranga.
I remember one person argued the same with Srila Prabhupada. He said that we cannot see air still we believe in its presence. This is because we can feel air. Similarly we cannot see God but we have to feel God. God is felt by following the instructions of Lord Gauranga. In another audio lecture of krishna.com Srila Prabhupada was giving a lecture in some Asian country (mostly hong kong but I am not sure). There He openly challenged people in the audience to argue with Him that God does not exist. One person from the audience told Him that he cannot see God. Srila Prabhupada told him that after coming to a foreign country He saw everything so organized. He saw traffic signals, police controlling traffic and the people obeying their orders and everything was so perfectly under law and order. He said that after seeing this an intelligent man would immediately understand that there has to be a controller behind this law and order which proves the existence of the president in the country. Similarly after seeing the material creation so organized where the sun and the other planets rotate exactly in their orbits. (According to Vedas even sun orbits). A deviation of planets from their orbits will cause planets to coincide. Similarly rain which gives us food etc everything is so organized here. Seeing this an intelligent man will immediately understand that there has to be a controller behind this under whose order the entire law and order is being maintained.
Sincerely,
Mihir.
Logic, perhaps?
Hare Krishna,
It is true that not all are qualified to accept the Lord into their lives. However, the likelihood of the existence of a greater power that is beyond the grasp of our senses and scientific instruments can be illustrated by means of reason and logic. Let me quote a few examples.
The world, as we know, is an intricate web of causes and effects. But every cause is an effect in itself. (For instance, a hen is the cause of an egg. However, the hen itself is caused by its parents.) So what caused the universe? The scientists might speak of the Big Bang Theory, according to which there was an infinitely dense point which exploded to give rise to the universe. However, what caused this point of infinite density? Nobody knows, but something must have caused it. And something else must have caused that something. That cause, in turn, must have been an effect of something else and so on and so forth.
This leads to the logical conclusion that there must have been a cause of all causes, an eternal cause, a cause that was not the effect of any other cause: God.
Similarly, how did life come to be? Certainly not by means of random reactions amongst lifeless chemicals! A touch of higher intelligence is bound to have been involved.
Thus, the so-called rationalists do not realise that the scientific spirit of reasoning itself only leads us to the logical conclusion that there certainly is a Supreme entitiy at work in this world of ours.
The above are the arguments I usually use to beat the proponents of modern science at their own game :). Hope it helped.
Awe-Struck
Ego
Haribol
Some very good points Awe-Struck, there are many examples to show a higher intelligence to all of creation!
I think ego is a big problem with atheistic science understanding a God principal.
Modern science has already discovered God thru Quantum Physics, but they still don't know it, because they still don't believe in a God.
--Quantum physics states that in the sub-atomic strata, there is no time or space(between points) - you are there and you are here - I am here and I am there at the same time, with no space in between. You are were you are and you are on the other side of the universe at the same time, and time moves forward, backwards and in all directions! Sounds just like the description of a spiritual dimension to me!!-- But still, no comprende.
The ego is to big! What a feat for a human to discover these things on his own. I think if man were able to live long enough he would be able to discover all the attributes of God - but he still wouldn't know him..
Actually there are some physicist that have found God through Science, they seem to be the ones who practice the science, but also have the ability to see the bigger picture. Some have been brought to their knees with the profound realization that this creation is infinite, that there is no end to it, there is no end to the number of universes - how can it be? This is to much for anyone to figure out. I think the difference with these scientist that admit to a God, is that they have had a profound realization that has broken the ego!
I would say Radhikesh das said it best :
"So Proof requires a qualified audience. And so is the Proof of God. If you want to understand science, you need to be educated and be qualified. Similarly, if you want to know about the supreme scientist, God, imagine how much qualification one would need"
Hare Krishna
The most wonderful things in life cannot be seen, shown!
The eyes fail to see what the mind does not know.in this case the mind does not want to know because it has become so egoist, that it will refuse to acknowledge a power greater than it.The presence of air can not be showed,it can only be felt.The fragrance of flower cannot be shown, it has to be experienced.vice versa all that is seen need not be true!for instance, when travelling you see the trees, the fields, the clouds all racing past you so rapidly, but we know the reality is just the opposite, it is we who are moving!simple facts, but as radhikeshji has so rightly said they have not yet qualified for it and at this stage, trying to convince them would be an exercise in futility. There is a saying in gujarati which when translated means 'I am doing this,I have done this,there in lies ignorance:just like the little dog,Who when walking UNDER a bullock cart feels that it is him who is lifting the whole load of the cart! HARI bol.
Qualification
Haribol. You have written so nicely about your friend's unfortunate position.
Now your friend says what could be proved existed, and what could not be proved simply did not exist. The question is proved to whom? Take a man on the street and prove to him Einstein's theory of relativity. Will that make any sense to that man? Will he accept that such a thing as relativity exists? When Einstein came up with one of his theories, the journalists asked the royal society of London to explain to them in simple terms. The Society refused saying it is too difficult to explain that in layman terms. Now your friend would immediately conclude, such a thing does not exist.
So Proof requires a qualified audience. And so is the Proof of God. If you want to understand science, you need to be educated and be qualified. Similarly, if you want to know about the supreme scientist, God, imagine how much qualification one would need. So without that qualification simply to challenge show me God is like an uneducated man saying prove me theory of Newtonian dynamics (if there is such a thing!!!).
Radhikesh das
Nice
Very nice answer Radhikesh, I appreciated reading it.
Navasi
Its an honor ...
that you appreciated what I wrote. Thanks.