Hare krsna
There is lot of contraversy is going on around regarding use of sugar by devotees and in offering to lord in preperations.
It has been proved that bone powder is being used (and at times cow's bone powder also) in processing of sugar. We are not getting any official confirmaiton from anybody in this regard. Please help us in this and confirm what is to be done.
Your humble servant,
Ramananda kanai das
Jaggery - old and natural
Hare Krishna
In the olden days , even today in India, jaggery - rock-like substance made from sugarcane is used in some recipes. People would not like to substitute the jaggery with sugar in these.
Jaggery with peanuts would be kids' favorite candy-snack.
You can find jaggery in the Indian stores. It may not work for cookies and cakes , but will work fine for halva or coconut recipes.
Always at your service,
Krishnali
Hare Krishna!
I know a family in my neighbour , who is not using white sugar in their kitchen, they are using Sakar ( brown sugar produce by the farmer, in house, by boiling the suger cane juce). This house made sugar is purly vaishnav.
And easly available in north india. If u r from India and Sakar is available in ur town, then u can use that.
Hare Krishna!
Good work
You will find that the bone char sugar and the non-bone char sugar cost the same. You just have to find the right brand or type as Vashisht says
Hare Krishna!
________________________________________
Visit the Food Channel @ Krishna.com
Also........
It's not that bone powder is actually in the sugar, mixed into it, it's that they are processing it through bone.
That's the last I heard on the subject anyway, unless something has changed.
Srila Prabhupad
As someone else said later in this thread, it's been known for a long time about this.
Srila Prabhupad used sugar in preparations. He did not instruct us not to use it.
It's not because he didn't know, it's because he didn't think it was so important.
That's my understanding anyway.
(I believe there is a letter about this where the devotees are telling him about it, and asking him "what do we do, should we use it", you might be able to find that letter if you search.)
He also told us that just purchasing something, paying money for it, purifies it.
There are so many ways that things become contaminated in this day and age.
If he didn't think it was important, then I don't think it's important, but maybe that's just me.
Those are my thoughts anyway.
Navasi
India
Haribol
Yes I do Believe this is true, although in East India (being predominantly Hindu) I don't think it is a major concern.
I'm wondering if bone free sugar should be sourced out for concerned individuals.
I have a message into someone at the ISMA - http://www.indiansugar.com/
To ask about locating a large Hindu owned and operated mill that would co-operate in giving some inside info on global sugar industry practice!!
hare Krishna
India
Yes, the sugar in question that I was referring to in the above post was not from India, it was being manufactured in Hawaii. (I believe, if my memory is correct).
My point was only that Srila Prabhupad did not tell us to concern ourselves with this issue.
It's up to the individual I guess...................
Love,
Navasi
Offerings
The amounts of potential animal particals are very low, I would say- that being a minor potential contaminant- would not be a violation of ones personal veggie diet. Probably the larger concern is the offerings.
Although if Prabhupad did not state any concern, I would say that it was because it was un-avoidable if you were in western society - and that Krishna is not expecting us to split hairs about these things, its the intention that counts!
But the mere posting of threads like this makes one think about how much of a purist they want to be. With modern technology in financial transactions and transportation and with the affluence in the west - one could make a once un-avoidable situation into an avoidable one.
Hare Krishna
Avoidable Things
Yes, sure, if it is avoidable, that would be the best thing.
Not all devotees think it would make sense to spend a lot of extra Laxmi to buy sugar to use that has been imported from some other country.
You are right about the splitting hairs thing.
Is it really a better use of Laxmi to buy imported sugar, which I feel sure at this point in time would be a lot more expensive (though I of course don't know).... or, would that Laxmi be better spent making donations to help with preaching efforts, on a larger scale ?
(I'd rather make a donation to Krishna. com than try to buy imported sugar personally, because it seems a better, more intelligent use of Laxmi Devi) : )
But again, like I said, it's up to the individual I guess....
Until devotees are making and importing everything there are always going to be these issues it seems to me.
Navasi
Food For Thought
It is food for thought about the future of this type of thing.
In a world of pollution and contamination of consumables - How to provide ??
Farms and logistics, personal education, or both!
Haribol
Devotees Everywhere
Nobody's going to care much about these kinds of details except devotees is my thought on that.
People have so many things going on in their lives, who's going to get on "mission" to stop general widespread contamination of things..... most people would just avoid the product if it bothered them that much, and get on with more important things, such as earning a living, or teaching their children how to read, or spending time with family and friends who they never get to see....
I think this is only going to be stopped, realistically, when devotees are running all the business concerns, because then the focus would change for the actual business, from "how do we keep it cost effective" to "how do we please Krishna the most".
I doubt
One of my close friends is in the business of manufacturing sugar on a very large scale. He is a vegetarian(though not a vaishnav) so I doubt if he will ever manufacture something that consists of bone powder. However if this is true then I am sure he will not reveal it to me as his business could get spoiled.
See the link
Hare krsna,
There are many sites on internet which confirms the use of bone in sugar refining. Check following link, see the last answer by 'sb'
http://nz.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080306101000AAiQ4zL
Can we take advise from krishna.com authorities also?
Ys
RKD
Authorities
Hare Krishna, Amingad,
You are wondering about taking advise from "Krishna.com authorities".
On connect, at least, since I think that's what you're referring to, there is no such thing as an "authority".
Krishna.com "connect" is made up of devotees who are just talking about what they themselves know to be true.
No one here is an "official Krishna.com authority".
So, you have to base that decision on what the person is saying, who that person is, and what their basis is for saying what they are saying etc....
Srila Prabhupad is the ultimate and real and only actual Authority of Krishna.com, so whoever is best representing his instructions would be the closest you would get to "authority".
Hope that's helpful to you.
Navasi
Srila Prabhupad
Well, I just thought it might be helpful to point out that we need to attempt to follow what Srila Prabhupad is telling us.
That's the only way to get to Krishna, is by following the instructions of Srila Prabhupad.
Jai, All Glories To Srila Prabhupad.
Hare Krishna, Hare Rama.
: ) : ) : )
Srila Prabhupad's Instructions
Here's an example of why it's so important to understand the Instructions Of Srila Prabhupad.
Always, of course, but here's an example about sugar:
As far a white refined sugar is concerned:
Suppose you are an ordinary American person, who has recently become a devotee.
You are getting ready to go visit your Grandmother, who will not even allow you to talk about Krishna at all. She's certainly not a vegetarian, and wouldn't dream of touching anything like that, even if you made it.
However, she loves your sugar cookies, you've always made them for her and they are "safe" to her. She's always thrilled when you bring them.
Well, this time, you are going to make your sugar cookies, and offer them to Krishna, and she will get the great benediction of having been given Prasadam.
Before you make your sugar cookies for this visit, you happen to read this thread on Connect about the evils of white refined sugar.
So, now you're scared.... what to do???? How can you make your sugar cookies, they're all saying that you can't use it, you have to find some other kind of sugar at the Indian store, or Health Food store, you sure can't use your normal sugar cookie recipe for that kind of sugar either.
Well, maybe some day you could look into all that, but you live in a small town also, and there's not an Indian store in sight...
(and there's still the problem of the recipe)
So, since you don't know anymore if white sugar is "safe", meaning it might not be "vegetarian" and maybe you can't even offer it to Krishna.
So, you don't make your sugar cookies, and you go to visit your Grandmother without them.
She doesn't get any prasadam, since that's the only thing she would eat that you brought her. (please don't say you could bring her fruit... I'm trying to make a point, and also, some people are very picky about what they will and will not eat).
You have a nice visit, but you of course can't talk about Krishna, and she doesn't get any prasadam.
That night, she dies in her sleep. Gone, no more chance to give her the mercy of Prasadam.
What would have been better? To worry about the evils of sugar processing, or to realize that Prabhupad knew this about sugar, and told us to use it anyway?
Obviously it would have been better to understand this, make the cookies and offer them, and give them to your Grandmother.
Sugar alternatives are fine, but it's very important not to forget the purpose behind everything we do. We have to make sure we do not forget what is the most important thing.
So, what's most important needs to come first, and everything else after that. It's about priorities.
Understanding and accepting the instructions of Srila Prabhupad comes first, in every single situation. If you do that, you can't go wrong. (anything and everything else you do in addition to that is extra).
Navasi
Srila Prabhupad The Ulitimate Authority
This controversy has been around for a long time. After coming back to this post today I did a Google search, and there are tons of postings everywhere - this was the first one that came up: http://www.dandavats.com/?p=4890
I believe Srila Prabhupad made the right judgment calls based on the the climate at the time, and those judgments were pristine.
I always think of Prabhupad for inspiration, and wish sometimes that he was still physically here, so we could hear his comments on modern aberrations in the world like genetic engineering and how man is on the brink of creating physical bodies without the problems that past bad karma would have brought?
It would be very enlightening!!
I also think of how nobody was ever appointed to the position of the level of authority that Prabhupad occupied within the Org. , and that no one has been commenting on changes in the modern world with the same level of authority since the mid 70's!
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I found a link for a cane sugar producer in Fla. - I don't know if they have a good deal or not, but it seems like a good model of farm and logistics, for anyone concerned.
http://www.floridacrystals.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.main&x=5128294
Haribol
Safety
I was just making a point about the safety in following the instructions of Srila Prabhupad.
I personally am not concerned because I don't use sugar at all, period. (in any form, natural, processed or otherwise).
But, for anyone else, I don't see why we need "updated" information since nothing has changed about sugar since Prabhupad was on the planet.
If there is some huge change is the modern world, like they start killing animals to grow vegetables, then maybe I would have to start eating only fruit.
In a case like that, I can see the need to "update" what we do, since it would be different from how it was when Prabhupad was here.
That's not the case with sugar. It was the same then as it is now.
Navasi
Sweet vs. Sweet
I know what your saying, the sugar thing is actually kind of a moot subject.
There are a lot of devotees that are concerned though, everyone just has to work it out in their own way.
I like these subjects because it stimulates some thought about the potential of devotee farms, and also the current state of leadership and vision, without a single master leading the way on a daily basis.
Haribol
Natural Cane
Haribol-
It has been known for a long time that sugar co.'s do this - and they have even lied about it when asked, making formal statements to declare that they don't.
Im sure that not all of them still do it today, but as equally sure that some still do! Although it is only the refined 'white' sugar that this is done to.
>To be safe only use un-refined natural cane sugar!!!!!!!!!
If you practice a tradition that requires pure white sugar, and your getting your sugar from a north/south American or European processor -- then Beware!!!!
>
"to swim in the waters of tradition is good, but to drown in them is suicide"
Hare Krishna
brown sugar
namaste
all of my cooking (and any other uses of sugar) has worked just as good by replacing white sugar with brown. no taste difference, and no chance of animals in my food, plus i'm boycotting a bad industry.
Gouranga!