Discussions

It seems to me that a lot of the time people are trying to present a certain image.
When they talk it's like they are trying to "seem very Krishna conscious".
More so than they actually are, not that I would really know who is Krishna conscious and who is not, of course, I'm only saying how it seems to me.
I wonder why this is? I would think that we would all make spiritual advancement a lot faster if we were really honest about where we are spiritually, instead of trying to "seem" further along than we actually are.
I know I personally feel a lot of "pressure" to always say the most Krishna conscious things around others. Since I am not always in the most Krishna conscious state, this is difficult for me.
Well, I am of course wanting to be Krishna conscious and help others do the same, but aren't we missing some part of the "process" if we don't express our actual level of Krishna consciousness, rather than only expressing the "best level we can"?
I hope this makes sense to someone.
Thanks.
Navasi

abhishek108's picture

May be

This may be because our mind will be fluctuating between material and spirituality. Its just a question

Navasi's picture

Good Point

That's a very good point Abhishek, and I imagine you are quite right and that is the very heart of the matter in fact.

I'm impressed.

: )

Thank you for your comments.

Hare Krishna!
Navasi

Krishnaowned's picture

Another Thought --

I wonder if there's also a language barrier at work here. I'm sure at least half of us speak a native language other than English! Anyone who can communicate in any second lanaguage, especially English, has my heart felt admiration!

EternalMuser's picture

And Yet....!

And yet......Prabhuji..... The love for Krishna and His glorification transcends all language barriers!
Haribol! PAMHO
Your eternal servant,
Eternal Muser

Navasi's picture

Thoughts & Concepts

I was just trying to discuss a concept, not something that only happens on the internet, or even on this website...
There are lots of devotee interactions, and some happen on the internet, some don't. (I have lots of devotee family members, and other devotees I talk to as well as any internet typing I do).
There are also other devotee websites....
I think this is all getting rather personal about connect, and while I am certainly happy to discuss anything that relates to connect, (and I have done that in this thread) I didn't mean specifically here... it can happen anywhere, and I don't think it really has to do with the internet or a language barrier, at least that's not what my post was about.
(my post was about the Concept, and the Concept was what I wanted to discuss).

And, I'm not directing this message at only you, Krishnaowned, but also for anyone else who may have misunderstood my post.

Thanks,
Navasi

abrennan's picture

Well then

Because it is interesting

Why don't you tell us what you do think it is about then

why do we do it

How to stop it

: )

________________________________________
Then we can all visit the Food Channel @ Krishna.com

Navasi's picture

Why

Hare Krishna, Dear Antony,
I think the main reason it happens is because we all want so much to inspire each other spiritually.
So, we try our best to say the most Krishna conscious things we can.
Sometimes though, I think if we express our own struggles, it may help someone else in ways that we have not thought of.
Ways that they would not have been helped otherwise.
For example, this post, and this thread.
It was very very hard for me to express this feeling, and ask for this discussion.
I felt very self-conscious and insecure doing it. I struggled a lot about "should I or not".... even before posting it.
I could have just made a post saying something nice about Krishna instead.
But, as you can clearly see, a lot of people were really interested in discussing this.
Some had problems with this issue also, some others just appreciated the chance for deeper self-analysis or analysis of the concept.
If I had refrained from saying this, (i.e. didn't put myself and my own weaknesses on the line) and just said something more Krishna conscious instead, then no one would have benefited from this discussion.
In fact, this discussion would not have even occurred at all.
That's what I meant when I said in my post "aren't we missing some part of the process".
Thank you for allowing me to talk about it. It was not easy for me at all.
Love,
Navasi

abrennan's picture

everyone relax

It's very difficult to use the internet to communicate.

be friendly and relaxed

Honesty is the best policy

________________________________________
Visit the Food Channel @ Krishna.com

Navasi's picture

Relax

Good Idea

EternalMuser's picture

My Humble Analysis

Hare Krishna! PAMHO!
It’s true Mataji, the fact that some people try to present a more KC image of themselves that they probably are. One of the biggest culprits is MYSELF.
I do not have the right to comment on other Devotees’ actions; indeed it would be sacrilege on my part to do so!
MY reasons for doing so are:
1. The fear of being viewed askance by other Devotees as a lowly, materialistic person, one whom a devotee should not associate with. For example, if I let loose the views that result from my ‘normal’ thinking process onto this website, the admin. will promptly erase all traces of the Eternal Muser from the website (and even create some sort of ‘firewall’ to prevent me from accessing it! LOL).
2. The fear of myself contaminating other aspiring and pure Devotees with my conditioned thoughts. I am always afraid of misleading/ diverting some other Devotee from KC with my materialistic, nonsensical thoughts (and thus incurring Krishna’s displeasure!)
3. To try and convince my own self that I am really more KC than I really am, in spite of knowing that Krishna knows the truth!
Here, I’d like to give myself my due and suggest that my pretence may not entirely stem from hypocrisy, and probably arise from an innocent desire to be that way when I know within myself I’m not. Much like a child who while playing, pretends that he’s driving a car when he knows that he cannot do so in reality.
4. My eternal, pompous False Ego, which does not allow me to accept my own faults and misbehaviour. In the periods of my enslavement by the modes of passion and ignorance, it shrouds my sense of discrimination and induces me into wrong-doing. It even leads me to believe what I did was right! It is only during these small, intermittent phases of sattvic thinking, brought about by His mercy and Vaishnava association, that I become aware of my deeds and regret the same.
Thus dear Friends, is my analysis.
Haribol!
Your eternal servant,
Eternal Muser

Navasi's picture

Honest Self-Analysis

Hare Krishna, Dear Eternal Muser,

Thank you for your comments here. I think your honest self analysis is a wonderful thing. If we each analyze ourselves in this way, then we can understand where our weaknesses and problems lie.
It's a good idea to keep these things conscious, and work on them, and do what we can to improve.
I can very much relate to a lot of what you've said, I have some of those same thoughts also, or at least very similar thoughts.

Krishna to the rescue!!! Take shelter of the Holy Name and Chant, Chant, Chant!

Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare
Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare

"Godhead is light. Nescience is darkness. Where there is Godhead there is no nescience".

I love that saying. : )

Navasi

ekbhaktin8's picture

We are all His writing instruments

PAMHO. There is such profound information here. I have learnt so much from all of you in such a short time! All these things have to be kept in mind.

I really like Navasi Mataji's and EternalMuser's efforts to point out and break this down. It really helps. I like your disclaimers, Prabhuji. Most of us just say very similar disclaimers in our minds before we write or even ask a question.

Here is my question : If we are all just His writing instruments, and if there is something really to be given that can be useful to someone somewhere, should we always hold back out of fear that our action will be mistaken as a (by)product of pompous false ego ? Are we not then holding back from devotional service ?

Most of you have a lot of experience with devotees so you would know better. However , this is also a possibility.

Point 6 :
Is it possible that the writer really does not even think (a flaw ?) about whether they will run the risk of looking more Krishna Concious ? their love for Krishna and eagerness to share overrides that ?
I believe , this is not an ordinary website. By Krishna's mercy everyone here seems beyond self glorification. In fact everyone is very cautious lest some such anartha touches them. Even the youngest here are quite mature - for their age at least.

**** I can understand the concern of senior devotees that too much technical Krishna info will overwhelm those new to the philosophy. Yes, we have to consider that. ****

Of course, we should only add when its necessary and important. Otherwise, the space on all servers will get full and the devotees managing the website will have a hard time with what to keep and throw. ha ha. :)

And finally , please forgive all those unintentional offenses i may have commited at everyone's lotus feet.

Hare Krishna. :)

love,
your servant
Ek bhakt

EternalMuser's picture

Intention that matters.

Hare Krishna Prabhuji.
Thank you for your kind comments. As regards your query as regards ourselves as writing instruments, I humbly submit that ultimately it is our intention and motive behind why we are writing that matters. In fact, it is this very intention which woulld even dictate the language, the very flow of words that come to our mind and thence, our fingers drumming on the keyboard.
For example, if I were to write an advice to some friend who's mentioned some problem in some forum, if my ulterior motive is self-glorification, I guess, my very words would indicate so. But if I wrote something with the sincere intention of helping him out and bringing him closer to Krishna (as a devotional service), Krishna will guide my thoughts, my sentences and my very words to that effect. My personal strategy is that since I don't trust myself with even developing and maintaining the 'right' attitude and intention when I write something, I say a quick prayer to Krishna or chant the Mahamantra a few times to guide my thought process so as to come out with something that makes sense and would be of Krishna-Conscious use to someone.
Moral of the story? If you find that something I wrote makes sense? Thank Krishna for it. Found something I wrote that stinks of self-gorification? Blame it on yours truly. :-)
Haribol!
Your eternal servant,
Eternal Muser

Navasi's picture

Instruments

Hare Krishna, Dear Ek bhat,
Thanks so much for your comments to this thread.
It's really good to hear that you appreciated this discussion.
I love what you've said about us all being writing instruments, and not holding back from devotional service.
It can be so easy to get caught up on the mental platform, always wondering if what we say will be taken in the right mood, and help someone advance, or hinder them.
I know I get into that a lot. If I just said "anything I felt" it could either be too technical, too intense, too "heavy"... to meaningless, too irrelevant, too inconsiderate, too much lacking in compassion, and a thousand other things.
It then become difficult to type anything at all.
Sometimes even, it's much easier just to say nothing, rather than take a chance of being misunderstood, and therefore, either hindering someone spiritually, or being put in the position of having to "defend my statements" for lack of a better term.
I don't like that at all.
I do feel the responsibility of being "senior" as you said, we cannot just "say anything".
I love analysis and honesty.
It keeps things real. (for me anyway).
Thanks so much for your comments, it's helpful to be able to discuss these things, and if I've ever offended anyone here, or upset them, or hindered them, and they happen to read this, at least they may realize that I'm only "trying" to do my best, and my best is not always good enough, or appreciated.
But not doing anything at all, does not seem like a very good way to please Krishna.
Love,
Navasi

Krishnaowned's picture

I see what you mean

I've noticed similar feelings, but knowing how many people are so much more advanced that I am (and probably ever will be in this life!) I just figured I'd do the best I can. If anyone's exaggerating their advancement, well, if you think that's what Lord Krishna wants, then you're doing the best you can. Hopefully! I have no problem with anyone expressing who they are and what they are, but I have noticed that sometimes it seems a little "churchy" around here. Having been feeling very negative myself lately, I just assumed it was me!

Navasi's picture

"Churchy"

te he he ....
That's exactly what I meant.....

Sometimes I think it's hard to talk or really make progress when we get too "churchy"...

Very good word, glad someone can relate! : )

Navasi's picture

Fauts & Mistakes

I have found that expressing my faults and making mistakes helps to keep me humble, and helps me to realize my own level of advancement.
If I don't express faults I have, or make mistakes ever, because I am trying very hard not to all the time, then I start thinking that I am free from these things, and since I'm not, it's not very helpful.
Does anyone else have this problem?

Radwinters's picture

Me Too...

I feel the same way. I fall into the illusion or trap of thinking that if I ignore things, they will not be a problem. But I need to be aware of my own faults so I can improve on them.

In terms of churchiness and trying to be more KC than we really are... yeah I see what you mean on that. I think maybe sometimes we try to convince ourselves that we are more spiritually evolved than we are. We hope that if we talk a big game it will become true. At least that's how it is for me... as for others I do not know what is in their heart!

Navasi's picture

It's Not A Class...

Well, you know.... it seems to me, that this is not Srimad Bhagavatam class in the temple room.... so, I would think we could be pretty casual.
Yes, we need to be trying to focus on Krishna consciousness, I mean, this website is Krishna.com after all, but sometimes I think maybe it gets a little too intense for people to relate to, since we are not in the temple, in a class.
Just like, for example, my relationship with my son. My son was born a devotee, he's 31 years old, and man, this kid has read every scripture there is (I mean, Krishna conscious ones).... He could talk philosophy until the sun came up 3 years from now. We get into these really really deep philosophical discussions, and I love it, it's very inspiring and informative to me, and he loves it too.
However, it's not like we do that every single time we talk. He doesn't call me up and say "Hare Krishna, Mataji Navasi, I was reading in Srimad Bhagavatam... such and such"...
No, he says "Hi mom, how's it going.... what have you been doing lately"... and I say "Hi Nila, well, such and such, and how have you been doing".... and we talk about lots of things that are just general life things. It's a relationship that way. It's not all formal, and like we're trying really hard to make sure that neither one of us ever says anything not directly related to Krishna.
Now, if we were doing that, that would be a really elevated platform, that's what I mean.... I don't know who here is on that level, so I think we could be a little more relaxed and friendly.
I notice that there are lots of really wonderful people who belong to this website, they talk to me all the time in my guest book, yet these same people rarely, if ever, make comments in the forum.
Why is that? Do they maybe feel that they don't have something that is "elevated" enough to say?
Well, of course I should ask them if I want a specific answer, but I don't feel I need that, it's up to them where they make comments and I respect that. I'm only using that as an example, of how maybe more people would "talk" in these forums if they knew it was okay to be a little more relaxed and they didn't have to "make a presentation" of some advanced philosophical concept, just to contribute a post here, say hello to us all, and have a little discussion about things.
So, that's what I mean.... we're not in Church.

Thanks for adding your comments to this thread Rebecca.
I agree totally on the other point as well, I know for myself I would much rather be aware of my faults than ignore them, though at the time I feel like I don't want to know, later, I am glad I saw it, because then I can do something about it.

Good To Have You Back Again. : )
Love,
Navasi

MahaVishnu's picture

Leaving Impressions

I think its like trying to leave a certain impressions-

Check this impression out,

the band - 'The Impressions' / Curtis Mayfield :
'PEOPLE GET READY' - 1965
first verse:

"People get ready, there's a train a- comin'
You don't need no baggage, you just get on board
All you need is faith to hear the diesels hummin'
You don't need no ticket you just thank the lord"

verses of this Curtis Mayfield song are included in the
Marley/Mayfield song,
'ONE LOVE' - 1977 . On the 1977 B.Marley album 'Exodus' .

Haribol

Navasi's picture

Good Impressions

Yep, I totally agree Maha Vishnu... it's got to be good impression we're leaving if we're going to be leaving one... and anybody and everybody is welcome on this train back to Krishna, no baggage needed, no ticket needed.....

I like the version done by Rod Stewart also...
Here's another verse of the same song, only I changed a word ;)

People get ready
For the train to Krishna
Picking up passengers
From coast to coast
Faith is the key
Open the doors and board them
Theres room for all
Among the loved the most

Hare Krishna! Hare Rama!
: ) : ) : ) : ) : ) : )

Navasi

MahaVishnu's picture

Perfect

That's a perfect word change!

There are so many great melodies out there, and all they need is a good word change!

Yes, I have always liked the Stewart version also, I seem to like anything that Jeff Beck plays on from the beginning of his solo days. The fade on that version is awesome, its one of those riff's that just wants to go forever.

I love changing songs into Krishna songs! I do it a lot while I'm driving and listening to the radio.

Navasi's picture

Changes...

That's really great Maha Vishnu, changing the songs that way, I like to do it too.
So many of the basic themes are good, they're just missing the point of Krishna.
I like to take the melodies of some of them and sing the maha mantra to it, especially if a certain tune gets stuck in my mind, it's fun to turn it into a tune to sing the maha mantra to.
I think changing songs that way is really fascinating stuff, I also like to take the existing lyrics and use them to describe efforts to become Krishna conscious or other Krishna related things.
That's using the material energy for Krishna : )

Chh-chh-chh-changes.... (lol)
turn and face the change....

Nice to meet someone who does it too.... : )

Navasi